Reality TV1 min ago
Without religion, would society fall apart?
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Say, somehow it was proved that there was no God, and that when you die all that remains is your body, no soul, no afterlife. If this was proved inconclusively, would society fall apart, as people would know there is no punishment after death for any act committed on earth?
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(most) religion tends to promote a hierarchical society.
We have lost a lot of that with increased secularisation
A lot of nonsense is talked about society falling apart.
You wan't to see a society falling apart ? Go to Somalia
We are light years away from that - and you'll probably find Somalis more religious too!
We have lost a lot of that with increased secularisation
A lot of nonsense is talked about society falling apart.
You wan't to see a society falling apart ? Go to Somalia
We are light years away from that - and you'll probably find Somalis more religious too!
Short answer - No.
Religion is only one form of glue that might hold a society together - and since, by and large, it does this through instilling fear and by offering a kind of future bribe to its followers,, not a particularly good or ethical example.
I don't believe that your second point - that society would fall apart because the only thing stopping people from mistreating others is the fear of eternal punishment? Really? Is that the only reason you do good or generous or kind things, flob? Fear of punishment in the afterlife?
No, observation coupled with some rational thought and reflection should inform you that this is not a true picture of how the vast majority of people of any society works nowadays.
Religion is only one form of glue that might hold a society together - and since, by and large, it does this through instilling fear and by offering a kind of future bribe to its followers,, not a particularly good or ethical example.
I don't believe that your second point - that society would fall apart because the only thing stopping people from mistreating others is the fear of eternal punishment? Really? Is that the only reason you do good or generous or kind things, flob? Fear of punishment in the afterlife?
No, observation coupled with some rational thought and reflection should inform you that this is not a true picture of how the vast majority of people of any society works nowadays.
Of course not. Your question assumes the only reason people live a civilised life is because they are afraid of punishment in the hereafter, but that isn't true at all. How do you think those who don't believe it manage? Religion might be a form of glue that binds sections of society together, but it also succeeds in creating enormous divisions, often with horrendous results. Personally I think the world would be a far better place if religion had never been invented.
religion is the cause of a lot of deep seated neurosis and issues and negative emotions that many people have...it is so deeply ingrained into them that they probably no longer know why or how they feel a certain way...guilt, pride and worry are the ones that most readily spring to mind...and with them come actions and reactions that can be devastating in many ways...
Not doing bad or sinful things or act for the fear of punishment in the hereafter is one thing and doing good things for the rewards in this life and hereafter is another. Few people might say that I am not committing a sin because I am afraid of the punishment but another might say that I am not only stopping myself from bad things but on the other hand doing good. So in other words not doing bad sometime is not good enough.
Religion gives us the idea about what is good. In fact whatever you would call as “good” would have been from religious perspective. Otherwise let me know a book written only about good things and what are those good things that religions have not already talked about.
////As Steve Weinberg said
"Without religion good people would still do good things and bad people would still do bad things
But for Good people to do bad things, that takes religion"/////
And As Keyplus 90 said
“Without religion good people would still do what “they believe” to be good (even if it is not good for the society at all) and bad people would still do what others believe to be bad (even if former believe that to be good otherwise why would they do that?). But for good people to put blame on for their bad actions, they need religion
Religion gives us the idea about what is good. In fact whatever you would call as “good” would have been from religious perspective. Otherwise let me know a book written only about good things and what are those good things that religions have not already talked about.
////As Steve Weinberg said
"Without religion good people would still do good things and bad people would still do bad things
But for Good people to do bad things, that takes religion"/////
And As Keyplus 90 said
“Without religion good people would still do what “they believe” to be good (even if it is not good for the society at all) and bad people would still do what others believe to be bad (even if former believe that to be good otherwise why would they do that?). But for good people to put blame on for their bad actions, they need religion
As both criminologists and psychologists would point out, 'external inhibitors' (such as the fear of punishment, whether that be a prison sentence or eternal damnation) often fail to prevent criminal (or anti-social) types of behaviour. 'Internal inhibitors' are far more important. For example, the reason that most men don't rape women has absolutely nothing to do with either their fear of prison or their fear of damnation. It's simply that their internal belief system tells them that such actions are unacceptable.
While religions might claim to provide an inflexible set of rules (such as the Ten Commandments) which everyone should live by, most people who live in a largely secular society (as here in the UK), and who may be atheists or agnostic, still seem to acquire the internal inhibitors necessary to function within that society.
Or to put it more simply:
No, society would not fall apart. Indeed, it would be far better off without the rules of religion which lead to prejudice, persecution or segregation (e.g. against women or homosexuals). Society would be far better if we banned the mention of religion to young people until they reached adulthood. Then (free of the brainwashing that many children currently receive) they'd all fall about laughing at the utter stupidity of it all.
Chris
While religions might claim to provide an inflexible set of rules (such as the Ten Commandments) which everyone should live by, most people who live in a largely secular society (as here in the UK), and who may be atheists or agnostic, still seem to acquire the internal inhibitors necessary to function within that society.
Or to put it more simply:
No, society would not fall apart. Indeed, it would be far better off without the rules of religion which lead to prejudice, persecution or segregation (e.g. against women or homosexuals). Society would be far better if we banned the mention of religion to young people until they reached adulthood. Then (free of the brainwashing that many children currently receive) they'd all fall about laughing at the utter stupidity of it all.
Chris
Keyplus ///Religion gives us the idea about what is good. In fact whatever you would call as “good” would have been from religious perspective///
This concept has been debunked over and over again. It is part of the self rightous dogma of the church because they define everything as good and bad in their own terms.
There are many church teachings that are bad by any rational secular definition. The oppression of woman, the attitudes to children, the hatred of homosexual people, wars comitted in the name of the faith etc.
The great leaps forward in morality are driven from secular society and have been brutally opposed by the church until they are so far out of touch that they eventually secumb the prevailing morality or fade into oblivion.
Keypus, philosophically speaking you are a soulless automaton and simply mouthing the doctine you have been fed since before you were born.
This concept has been debunked over and over again. It is part of the self rightous dogma of the church because they define everything as good and bad in their own terms.
There are many church teachings that are bad by any rational secular definition. The oppression of woman, the attitudes to children, the hatred of homosexual people, wars comitted in the name of the faith etc.
The great leaps forward in morality are driven from secular society and have been brutally opposed by the church until they are so far out of touch that they eventually secumb the prevailing morality or fade into oblivion.
Keypus, philosophically speaking you are a soulless automaton and simply mouthing the doctine you have been fed since before you were born.
The short answer is no.
Good people frequently (more frequently) do bad things in the name of politics.
In the absence of religion you get politics.
Society would survive for the simple reason, we all want to eat and have nice things, conflict tends to bar that.
The reaal problem with people, is well, people, there are always those who seek to dwell on the things that set us apart rather than the things that tie us together.
Any form of expression that they don't understand or dislike is to be scorned and stamped out, and they don't need religion or to be religious to do it.
Good people frequently (more frequently) do bad things in the name of politics.
In the absence of religion you get politics.
Society would survive for the simple reason, we all want to eat and have nice things, conflict tends to bar that.
The reaal problem with people, is well, people, there are always those who seek to dwell on the things that set us apart rather than the things that tie us together.
Any form of expression that they don't understand or dislike is to be scorned and stamped out, and they don't need religion or to be religious to do it.
Perhaps you could offer us a demonstration from history where a country that was decidedly and devoutly atheist, was not decidedly and devoutly political and ideological?
Even some of the most theocratic (before anyone tries, I'm not an exponent of theocracy) regimes in history allowed some degree of deifferent religious expression, the exception perhaps being Tibet between 1919 and 1950, but everybody seems to have loved it then...
I feel you tend to suffer from the blindness of your own expeiences and viewpoints, takes all sorts to make a world.
Even some of the most theocratic (before anyone tries, I'm not an exponent of theocracy) regimes in history allowed some degree of deifferent religious expression, the exception perhaps being Tibet between 1919 and 1950, but everybody seems to have loved it then...
I feel you tend to suffer from the blindness of your own expeiences and viewpoints, takes all sorts to make a world.
Everton, I presume you're addressing me, but I haven't a clue why you're talking about politics. The question asks whether society would fall apart without religion, and has nothing to do with politics, so I repeat, I fail to see the reasoning in your answer.
It's a pity you continually feel the need to bring personal and irrelevant comments into every discussion, but thank you for the psychological assessment. I'll bear it in mind.
It's a pity you continually feel the need to bring personal and irrelevant comments into every discussion, but thank you for the psychological assessment. I'll bear it in mind.
maybe we need a wiccan equivalent of a holy war only how could a religion fight if its only to rules are 'And it hurt none do as thou wilt' and remember the threefold law of return i.e everything you do for good or bad will come back to you three fold...
We shall not raise sword nor staff gainst any man nor shall we live without respect for the world and all life upon it.... and if anyone can find a better set of rules to live by I will convert gladly
We shall not raise sword nor staff gainst any man nor shall we live without respect for the world and all life upon it.... and if anyone can find a better set of rules to live by I will convert gladly
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