A question for Christians

[naomi24]

You're told Jesus died for you personally because God loves you, and this appalling death was necessary in order for your sins to be forgiven. Of course, God is omnipotent, apparently, so we cannot possibly believe there was no other way, but that aside, I would hate to think that someone deliberately planned to torture and execute a man on my behalf, so given a choice, would you have allowed it to happen?

[ll_billym]

Ankou: //well that carries as much weight in fact as the biblical accounts themselves//

Correct. You got my point.

[naomi24]

Elderman, //It is clear from Jesus’ teachings that he intended for his disciples to have a balanced view of non-Christians.//

It may have escaped your notice, but Christianity didn't exist in Jesus day. He and his disciples were Jews.

[jedimistress]

So the Christian "God" comitted infanticide in order for people to believe in him? He sounds incredibly narcissistic.

[keyplus90]

////BESO - It is amusing to see Keyplus debunking the central story of the Christian faith but steadfastly insisting that an illiterate man went off and wrote a 2000 page manifesto…….//////.

That is the whole point Beso that Muslims do not believe that Muhammad (pbuh) wrote that book as he could not read or write. That is to do with if you literally mean by writing as a person who can’t read or write can still dictate to the others who could write. But the question is that the person who can’t read or write where did he collect the material from even to dictate?

Back to the main question again.

[keyplus90]

Ankou - There you go after reading your post I have not responded to Naomi's post. But you just watch she would not be able to leave my post (to Beso) alone.

[naomi24]

jedimistress, //He sounds incredibly narcissistic. //

An understatement.

Keyplus, stop being stupid.

[Ann]

God bless you Cupid for quoting my favourite hymn "How deep the Father's love for us" - the words say it all and are so meaningful to us born again Christians.
I don't think some people understand the word "Christian" - to some it just means "not a Muslim" but the word really means "a follower of Christ" - someone who has asked Jesus to become their Saviour and Friend, and who makes him Lord of their lives.
To those who asked for evidence of God's existence, you only have to look around you at the wonderful spectacle of nature, the changing seasons and know the great Creator God and to thank and praise Him.

[naomi24]

Ann, I think you will find that many people here understand Christianity rather more than you do.

Would you like to answer the question?

[Ann]

Yes Naomi - You ask "I would hate to think that someone deliberately planned to torture and execute a man on my behalf, so given a choice, would you have allowed it to happen?" Nobody would want anyone to die on their behalf but of course God planned that Jesus should die because of our sins, he paid the price for us, so we can go free. the Bible says we ALL have sinned (even small sins are the same as large ones) Jesus did not want to die, in fact he asked why God had forsaken him while he was dying on the cross. However he accepted Gods will "Father into your hands I commit my Spirit" ................That is why we, as Christians take Communion as an act of remembrance, to quietly reflect on the great sacrifice that Jesus made for us and to thank Him for giving his life for us. Read Cupid's previous posting of the lovely hymn and think about those humbling words. God bless you all x

[jedimistress]

Have you heard Reality Asylum by Crass? It'd possibly make even the hardiest athiests ears bleed.

[naomi24]

Ann, yes, we know all that, but that still doesn't explain the necessity for such cruelty - because God being God can do what he likes, can't he? His reputation as a God of love falls at the first hurdle! Furthermore, neither does it explain a Christian's blind acceptance of torture and murder purely designed to benefit him personally. Where are your moral principles?

Actually, I've always thought that bit about Jesus on the cross praying to God was most odd. He was just talking to himself. Delirious I expect. Understandable though - in the circumstances.

[Ann]

Naomi - Jesus was God's only Son. He called him "Father" on the cross.
Read John 3 v 16/17
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

[naomi24]

Ann, //Jesus was God's only Son//

No, he wasn't. Read your bible.

[sandyRoe]

I wonder do Christians, or indeed followers of any other religion, spend their days pondering the ineffable nature of their God, or do they just use their religion as a template for a decent life?

[naomi24]

And actually, Ann, you probably call God 'Father' in church - that's if you Born Agains say 'The Lords Prayer'. Does that make you his daughter?

[Ann]

Naomi - I think its you who should read your Bible - I have already quoted you the verse John 3 v 16 where it says Jesus was God's son. My Bible also clearly says in Ephesians 1v 3 "Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight."

[Ann]

Christians being part of God's family are called "Sons of God" as a collective term, no matter whether we are male or female.

[RATTER15]

naomi. //So does that mean Christian belief negates the moral requirement to embrace civilised human principles?//

It does appear that way.

[Elderman]

naomi, It was first in Antioch [Syria] that the disciples were by divine providence called Christians.” (Ac 11:26) It is possible, then, that this name was used as early as the year 44 C.E. when the events surrounding this text occurred, although the grammatical structure of this phrase does not necessarily make it so; some think it was a little later. At any rate, by about 58 C.E., in the city of Caesarea, the term was well known and used even by public officials, for at that time King Herod Agrippa II said to Paul: “In a short time you would persuade me to become a Christian.( Ac 26:28)


Ancient world did not understand Jesus, it did not understand the Christians and therefore hated them. Since they refused to worship the emperor and pagan divinities, they were accused of atheism. If a catastrophe occurred, they were blamed for having angered the gods. Because they did not attend immoral plays or bloody gladiatorial shows, they were considered antisocial, even ‘haters of the human race.’ Their enemies claimed that homes were broken up by the Christian “sect” and that it was therefore a danger to social stability. Tertullian spoke of pagan husbands who preferred that their wives commit adultery than that they become Christians.

Christians were criticized because they were against abortion, widely practiced at the time. Yet, their enemies accused them of killing children. It was alleged that at their meetings they drank the blood of sacrificed children. At the same time, their enemies tried to force them to eat blood sausage, knowing that this was against their conscience. Thus these opposers gave the lie to their own accusation.