Happy Christmas, Elderman!

[beckersjay]

Elderman, I don't always agree with the things you say but I hate the way you are treated by many ABers. I hope you and your family have a good, peaceful and loving Christmas.

[jomifl]

Askyourgran, insults are no substitute for rational argument and can easily be taken as an indicator of a lack of the same. Didn't someone in your holy book mention planks and so forth and the casting out thereof?

[naomi24]

As far as I can see, Askyougran hasn't offered an argument at all - rational or otherwise. Shooting the messenger is as far as she gets - and that speaks volumes.

[beckersjay]

Beso//When you defend those who exalt the Bible you defend the gloriification of genocide as unambiguously described within it.//
Goodness! I can imagine circumstances when I would even defend you, Beso - but I would hate to think people thought this meant I supported your views as expressed on AB!!
Jomifl, sorry if you feel I misinterpreted your post but thanks for the good wishes anyway.

[beso]

beckersjay: if you support the right of the biblicists to exalt the book and promote their faith free from all criticism then you are indeed supporting the tenets of the book itself, and they include the upholding of genocide as a rightous act.

I only ask that I be afforded the respect of having my criticism of these beliefs heard without being accused of being deluded.

The flow of verbal diahorrea has long been from the religious and continues unabated to this day. However it seems as soon as anything is said to counter their position, apologists stand up to defend them.

The apologists never answer my question about their support of those who exalt genocide and we can see here how beckersjay continues to worm their way from that issue.

[NOX]

First of all Merry Christmas to anyone who celebrates it,since I am quite happy for them to celebrate whatever the hell they like and be happy about it. The subject of Elderman is a problematic one as Beso etc have said. Anytone can respect an individual's right to whatever views they choose to have without agreeing with them, it is everyopne's right to thnk whatever they like however vile, wrong, inexplicable they may be. It's only not okay when those views promote hatred, inequality and ignorance. It's also not okay to come to threads debating religion intelligently and simply copy and paste huge parts of scripture which disrupt and make no sense without any form of logicallt thought out argument. It disrupts the flow of debate and is nothing short of preaching and ought not to be tolerated. If he debated like a normal person that would be fine, but Elderman seems unable or unwilling to do that and that is why he is met with 'derision'.
It also seems he is now being held up as some kind of martyr by the likes of Askyourgran ( a dubious privilige given her penchant for insulting those who simply don't agree with her and also not offering valid reasons for her opinions), so one can only assume that the majority of Christians on here feel it's okay to simply inflict their views on everyone else. Now that's a surprise isn't it?

[naomi24]

Religious apologists have no rational argument and hence, would rather all critics just shut up - and that is actually what Askyourgran is saying.

[beckersjay]

It seems quite clear to me that many contributors to this site either cannot or will not understand the diffference between robust argument and offensive personal attack.
I think I have had enough of this and similar threads for the time being.
Nothing I have said suggests that I support genocide (!) or even that I necessarily believe in the Bible - but as far as my beliefs are concerned, they are very personal to me and I have no intention of either arguing or promoting them on this site.
I think it is so sad that this part of AB doesn't fulfil its potential for thought-provoking debate because apologists (on both sides) are both defensive and offensive in almost equal measure.

[jomifl]

Beckersjay, I'm sorry to hear that you think the atheists aren't quite pulling their weight by restricting themselves to rational argument, do you think a good emotional rant would help our cause (such as it is).

[beso]

@beckersjay

You have castigated atheists for criticising the philosophy of those who exalt the Bible. Therefore you support the notion that their beliefs should not be questioned.

The Bible clearly and unambiguously presents the Hebrew genocides as evidence for the glory of God. Since you will not have a word spoken against the Bible you therefore support this interpretation.

Therefore you uphold genocide as an exalted act by attempting to inhibit those who would seek to inform the public of the truth about the Bible.

[beckersjay]

Beso, using similar logic, I suppose that all those who do not support/believe in the Bible do not support or believe in things like love, charity, the healing of the sick, turning the other cheek etc etc etc.

[netibiza]

Happy Birthday Elderman.

[boxtops]

Neti, his too?!!

[jomifl]

Beckersjay, that is not similar and it is not logic.

[boxtops]

mind you, I don't think JWs celebrate birthdays either :-(

[jomifl]

^ Irony perhaps?

[naomi24]

//I suppose that all those who do not support/believe in the Bible do not support or believe in things like love, charity, the healing of the sick, turning the other cheek etc etc etc. //

Groan .......... Pathetic!

[beso]

@beckersjay

Religion did not invent love, charity, healing of the sick or turn the other cheek. I dare say I know far more about love than those who supposedly "love" Jesus. The loves in my life are based on knowledge and understanding rather than a mindless trance beset upon those who have secumed to the chants of religious doctrine.

When it come to "turning the other cheek", those of religious pursuasion seem to have misunderstood which cheeks were meant by the expression.