Just a thought on the recent influx of theists.

[dabees]

I have noticed the recent influx of theists here, not surprising considering the category but unusual all the same.

I float around many parts of the Internet that have a majority of Atheist users and have noticed many former Theists "coming out" to family and friends. Most of them seem to live in the USA and have faced a lot of persecution for their decision.

Some of them (younger atheists) have been kicked out of the family home and a few have even suffered death threats and condemnation to hell.

Question 1 to theists: Can you justify someone telling a child to leave the family home for not following your religion?

Q2: There are many religions and variations of those religions, what in your eyes makes yours the correct choice?

For everyone. I was wondering if the recent posts by theists are a way to combat this change and also if AB's change to a US server has facilitated this somehow?

[ChuckFickens]

"and I have contacted Ed and Chuckfickens"

You haven't contacted me (you wouldn't know how to). you posted on a thread once directing your comment towards me. That's not the same thing.

[dabees]

A decent parent wouldn't have produced a layabout jno, I'm far from perfect, but my kids have respect. What did your friend do wrong?

[jno]

her husband walked out on her when the kids were eight or so. She's done her damnedest.

[DTCwordfan]

I have no issue with c and p, jno, its more the lack of acknowledgement that these folk use as it takes over all their posts, excluding the pathetic attempts at insults when challenged.

[DTCwordfan]

true CF......apologies.

[jno]

some people might bridle at the sight of people using their words without acknowledgment; preachers seldom do - they are happy to see their words spread - and I can't see any reason to do it on their behalf.

Same old rule: if you don't like a thread, ignore it.

[boxtops]

I just looked, dabees - it all says UK registered, not US.

[dabees]

My ex walked out when our son was 18 months jno, I've done alright and have a 19 year old son that I and all our family is proud of. It's not rocket science, just learning from evolution maybe?

[venator]

The cut & paste stuff is easily recognisable, and I can ignore it, just as I can spot and ignore junk mail.

The problem would only arise when the volume of this stuff gets too great, and puts you off AB. We're not there yet.

I've tried cutting & pasting some old Babylonian stuff on Eldermanic threads - it might irritate him, perhaps, but it's a forlorn hope.

[boxtops]

Try posting some Arabic, venator....

[jno]

perhaps you're lucky to have one son and an "all my family", dabees; my friend has two sons and no other family. I don't think you need pat yourself on the back for having done better than she has. You'll just have to take my word for it that she is thoroughly decent and has done her best. Her kids maybe have their father's genes - except, of course, the leaving-home ones.

[dabees]

You don't think I need to pat myself on the back for bringing up a decent child jno? Why am I here If it's not to bring up a child in a decent way?

[dabees]

don't *you

[jno]

because in announcing that you've raised a good child you're comparing yourself with someone you don't know and asking why she hasn't done the same. It may be because you are an all-round finer person, or it may be that you had more luck, more support, more money, or all these.

[dabees]

Not at all jno, I'm not bragging. Luck and morals are the only ones I have experience of.

[LazyGun]

Gotta love the apologists for the "cut and paste" brigade here, and, no surprises, its those of the religious persuasion doing all the defending.

This is a forum, which implies asking questions, or posing challenges to the others. I do not believe it should be an open forum soapbox for preaching by those of the more zealous religious persuasion.

Here is what is wrong with the current crop of cut and pasters.
1. "Passing off" - Elderman for instance has variously posted, whole, turgid screed from creationist websites. Reading one of his more recent efforts, it would appear he is a "marine engineer of more than 40 years experience". Now, that may lend some authority to his argument over the design of Noahs Ark, were it true - But it appears not to be, since the text has been copied wholesale.
2. Lack of Attribution. JNO, dismissive as ever, claims that preachers do not care if their words are subsequently used elsewhere - and there is possibly some truth to that, but when presenting an argument or a rebuttal I think it important to know the original source of the material, so i can check for myself - This goes to accuracy, transparency and of course, bias. Much of the antiscientific screed posted here by Elderman and others is a straight lift of misrepresentation and misinformation put out by the Institute of Creation Research.
3. Defence of argument. You post in a public forum, you must expect debate. Elderman consistently refuses to engage with criticisms or rebuttals of the points made against some of the sermonising they post, and one cannot help but feel it is because the post is not their own original work. This is dishonest as well - a kind of drive by sermon.
4.Time and Effort. It takes a couple of seconds to copy and paste garbage or propaganda from evangelising websites, which may contain misrepresentation, selective quotations out of context and downright lie. Leaving such information unchallenged is wrong, but rebutting such copy and paste text takes time to construct the post, and I resent this.
5.Intellectual dishonesty. I think evangelism promotes this- it ignores all criticism at the expense of the faith - And this is why you get apologists for such actions posting in defence of these empty shells that masquerage as virtual preachers.

I am all in favour of free speech - indeed, we should have more of it - but this unattributed cut and pasting is not free speech - it is the unthinking regurgitation of evangelism, unattributed so the reader cannot perform any independent verification, and intellectually dishonest. That such behaviour is supported by some of the resident faithheads here just goes to show how easily those of faith resort to "lying for jesus"

[Davethedog]

So well put LazyGun. The only thing I would add is that prolififeration of "evangalists" seemed to happen all at the same time leading me to think it is all the work of one person.

[NOX]

To address the questions and not to stray into very dangerous 'my child is better than yours, hurrah' territory,
1. No, I would never throw a child out ( minor or adult) for having differing beliefs to mine. We have always been a family with diverse religious persuasions, I being born Catholic and now heathen, my wife being Jewish and our children everything from Atheists through Catholic, Pagan, Jewish and Buddhist. It works perfectly well and we all muddled along accomodating one another's individual beliefs.
2. Mine just makes sense to me. It's not so much a religion as a belief system which allows you to manipulate energy and action to achieve things you want and that are better for the world in general. Any ' Gods' or Goddesses' are focal points for certain types of energy and things can be manifested far easier if everyone directs soemthing towards a focal point.

[naomi24]

jno. //Children can be and are invited to leave the family home for a great variety of reasons; I can't see why religion shouldn't be one. //

I find that utterly disgusting. I'm truly shocked. If that's what religion does to you, then in my opinion you need to seriously examine your principles. Religionists continually tell non-believers that they are lacking in morals, and you, personally, have recently complained that the discussions here are unbalanced, so perhaps you'd like to attempt to load the scales in your own favour and explain your thinking on that one.