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Sexual Discrimination
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Which religion has the worst record for sexual discrimination?
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OK, so let the thread begin after 175 posts.
Vetuste-enne – No need to apologize and please do not say anything nice about me otherwise you would end up getting few people upset. Then to answer your question there is not even a single country in this world at present that is running 100% Islamic law. Adulterer (only married and Muslim as they have no reason to commit adultery) is stoned (unmarried and non-Muslim) are only given lashes. But the requirement (according to Islamic Shariah) is so demanding before someone can be sentenced. 4 eye witnesses who must have seen it happening. That in reality is almost impossible. Other option is someone admitting him/herself. Good example is the incident quoted by Steve. Now question is that knowing the punishment why someone would come forward and admit when there are no witnesses. Because few people would rather like be punished in this world than in the hereafter. But that is question of faith (whether you believe in hereafter or not). Reason behind the severity of punishment is because adultery destroys families and societies. It is violation of trust between two people. How would you feel if you find out that your other half is having sex behind your back? As for schooling of women then Islam emphasise on education for both men and women and depriving them has nothing to do with Islam.
Naomi ////Not true. References to it in Hindu mythology are rare, and in some instances disputed entirely as later additions.////
At least you agree that it is there. Thanks for that or shall I take this post as just at the spur of the moment kind?
The verse you quoted talks about confining women so that they do not carry on doing what they did (adultery) but still it does not say that you should kill them. Although you have presumed starvation but Quran only talks about confinement and then in the immediate verses talks about repentance. But I do wish that you read all of chapter 4 or at least few following verses. But on the other hand I am sure you wouldn’t.
About your problem about women “witness” that that has been talked about so many times and has only to do with financial matters otherwise from within Quran I can give you many example where Quran talks about witness without mentioning men or women. In Shariah there are many matters where only women’s witness is acceptable. I will not say anything about your other posted hadith’s until I will have a reference as I know few people do either twist words or quote (yet again) out of context.
Steve – First of all what Iran as a country doing might not have anything to do with Islam. Then why most of these human right violations have happened in very recent years. Could it be co incident to tie it to Iran’s not bending in front of Western countries?
Vetuste-enne – No need to apologize and please do not say anything nice about me otherwise you would end up getting few people upset. Then to answer your question there is not even a single country in this world at present that is running 100% Islamic law. Adulterer (only married and Muslim as they have no reason to commit adultery) is stoned (unmarried and non-Muslim) are only given lashes. But the requirement (according to Islamic Shariah) is so demanding before someone can be sentenced. 4 eye witnesses who must have seen it happening. That in reality is almost impossible. Other option is someone admitting him/herself. Good example is the incident quoted by Steve. Now question is that knowing the punishment why someone would come forward and admit when there are no witnesses. Because few people would rather like be punished in this world than in the hereafter. But that is question of faith (whether you believe in hereafter or not). Reason behind the severity of punishment is because adultery destroys families and societies. It is violation of trust between two people. How would you feel if you find out that your other half is having sex behind your back? As for schooling of women then Islam emphasise on education for both men and women and depriving them has nothing to do with Islam.
Naomi ////Not true. References to it in Hindu mythology are rare, and in some instances disputed entirely as later additions.////
At least you agree that it is there. Thanks for that or shall I take this post as just at the spur of the moment kind?
The verse you quoted talks about confining women so that they do not carry on doing what they did (adultery) but still it does not say that you should kill them. Although you have presumed starvation but Quran only talks about confinement and then in the immediate verses talks about repentance. But I do wish that you read all of chapter 4 or at least few following verses. But on the other hand I am sure you wouldn’t.
About your problem about women “witness” that that has been talked about so many times and has only to do with financial matters otherwise from within Quran I can give you many example where Quran talks about witness without mentioning men or women. In Shariah there are many matters where only women’s witness is acceptable. I will not say anything about your other posted hadith’s until I will have a reference as I know few people do either twist words or quote (yet again) out of context.
Steve – First of all what Iran as a country doing might not have anything to do with Islam. Then why most of these human right violations have happened in very recent years. Could it be co incident to tie it to Iran’s not bending in front of Western countries?
Father Ted – Would that one outstanding candidate be me? In other words you want me to say that Islam is the worst? Ok take my words for that if that is what would satisfy you. Did I not say that few people know the answers they will accept? Do you really believe that would change ground realities and you would be able to stop people (especially) women entering Islam? Then think again because few people study Islam very closely before they make their mind up.
Jomifl - Sorry I forgot to respond to your post about apologizing to Naomi or be reported. Please do me a favour and report my post. At least someone would decide whether or not my post was wrong after reading it.
Jomifl - Sorry I forgot to respond to your post about apologizing to Naomi or be reported. Please do me a favour and report my post. At least someone would decide whether or not my post was wrong after reading it.
Keyplus, stop with your deceitful nonsense. I have heard enough of it to know exactly where you’re coming from – and I suspect I’m not alone. How about answering my question?
If women are so well treated within Islam, as you claim, can you tell me why such organisations as The Iranian & Kurdish Women's Rights Organisation, or Imkaan, exist – both of which are fighting injustice – and worse – against women within Islam?
If women are so well treated within Islam, as you claim, can you tell me why such organisations as The Iranian & Kurdish Women's Rights Organisation, or Imkaan, exist – both of which are fighting injustice – and worse – against women within Islam?
Keyplus:
* Just because you are ignoring me doesn't mean that I am ignoring you. My posts, even when they are directed at you specifically, are meant to be viewed by all. So please continue your childish game if it pleases you – I won't be reciprocating *
You've surpassed yourself this time. There are so many lies and inconsistencies in your last few posts that it's difficult to know where to start.
I think I'll start with your interpretation of Koran 4:15, “Those who commit unlawful sexual intercourse of your women - bring against them four [witnesses] from among you. And if they testify, confine the guilty women to houses until death takes them or Allah ordains for them [another] way [Sahih International version]”.
You say that, “... The verse you quoted talks about confining women so that they do not carry on doing what they did (adultery) but still it does not say that you should kill them...”. Are you really that naïve? I agree that verse 4:15 doesn't specifically state that the women should die literally at the hands of their captors but to think that they are not responsible for the women's deaths is completely moronic and obtuse. You are attempting to sugar-coat the Koran's most vile and unpleasant verses yet again.
You accuse Naomi of claiming that the video you posted was 'fabricated'. She did no such thing as she has quite rightly pointed out. If I'd make such a flagrantly untrue accusation, I'd apologise. I won't be holding my breath for your apology.
I could go on de-constructing your pathetically weak arguments (and blatant lies) but I simply don't have the time nor the inclination tonight. Another time maybe. Suffice to say that I consider you to be a pathological liar and a religious apologist par excellence.
* Just because you are ignoring me doesn't mean that I am ignoring you. My posts, even when they are directed at you specifically, are meant to be viewed by all. So please continue your childish game if it pleases you – I won't be reciprocating *
You've surpassed yourself this time. There are so many lies and inconsistencies in your last few posts that it's difficult to know where to start.
I think I'll start with your interpretation of Koran 4:15, “Those who commit unlawful sexual intercourse of your women - bring against them four [witnesses] from among you. And if they testify, confine the guilty women to houses until death takes them or Allah ordains for them [another] way [Sahih International version]”.
You say that, “... The verse you quoted talks about confining women so that they do not carry on doing what they did (adultery) but still it does not say that you should kill them...”. Are you really that naïve? I agree that verse 4:15 doesn't specifically state that the women should die literally at the hands of their captors but to think that they are not responsible for the women's deaths is completely moronic and obtuse. You are attempting to sugar-coat the Koran's most vile and unpleasant verses yet again.
You accuse Naomi of claiming that the video you posted was 'fabricated'. She did no such thing as she has quite rightly pointed out. If I'd make such a flagrantly untrue accusation, I'd apologise. I won't be holding my breath for your apology.
I could go on de-constructing your pathetically weak arguments (and blatant lies) but I simply don't have the time nor the inclination tonight. Another time maybe. Suffice to say that I consider you to be a pathological liar and a religious apologist par excellence.
Sith, unlike you, I don’t blindly follow anyone. I often disagree with other atheists, and they with me. If, regardless of witnessing this shameful performance from Keyplus - just the latest in a long line of shameful performances - you choose to support him simply because he’s Muslim, it says little for your principles. I was trying to offer you some good advice, but never mind. It’s your choice.
<< there is not even a single country in this world at present that is running 100% Islamic law>>
But there a many which have some form of Sharia, Keyplus, don't you agree? Wouldn't some of those include Saudi, Yemen, Bangladesh, Afghanistan,Somalia and Pakistan? Nominate the one which has the best record on the treatment of women.
As you agree that Sharia and its punishments are the proper way to run society I'll raise a question on Sharia in a different thread. I particularly liked the bit of casuistry about suffering in this life to avoid greater suffering in the next.
To my fellow atheists (and you Sandy): it's the way he tells 'em!
But there a many which have some form of Sharia, Keyplus, don't you agree? Wouldn't some of those include Saudi, Yemen, Bangladesh, Afghanistan,Somalia and Pakistan? Nominate the one which has the best record on the treatment of women.
As you agree that Sharia and its punishments are the proper way to run society I'll raise a question on Sharia in a different thread. I particularly liked the bit of casuistry about suffering in this life to avoid greater suffering in the next.
To my fellow atheists (and you Sandy): it's the way he tells 'em!
So let me get this right - Everything Keyplus posts and everything anyone else posts is either a fabrication, lie, decietful in some one, old so it doesn't count or propaganda against Iran, which MIGHT not be anything to do with Islam?
You are an apologist for Islam and simply because you are a Muslim you blindly not only follow your religion, you follow any adherent no mater how base, perverted, inhumane and illegal it may be.
You are happy to use the freedoms extended to you by western society whilst spreading the properganda, that would stifle and destroy those freedoms. Your stupidity, your lack of any sort of independent thought, your attemptempted duplicity and your contempt of the people, is to be despised, you are nothing more than the scum of the world.
You do your religion, its adherents and indeed Muhammad no credit what so ever. You should be ashamed
You are an apologist for Islam and simply because you are a Muslim you blindly not only follow your religion, you follow any adherent no mater how base, perverted, inhumane and illegal it may be.
You are happy to use the freedoms extended to you by western society whilst spreading the properganda, that would stifle and destroy those freedoms. Your stupidity, your lack of any sort of independent thought, your attemptempted duplicity and your contempt of the people, is to be despised, you are nothing more than the scum of the world.
You do your religion, its adherents and indeed Muhammad no credit what so ever. You should be ashamed
Naomi ////Keyplus, stop with your deceitful nonsense. I have heard enough of it to know exactly where you’re coming from – and I suspect I’m not alone. How about answering my question?////
I have heard all that before Naomi. And to answer your question, its not only Iranian & Kurdish women who are doing that. There are others too in other countries and there are two reason behind that. First reason is that they are supposed to be Muslim countries but are not being run under Islamic law because they are afraid to as they do not want to upset few others. So you can’t blame Islam for that and then second reason is that most of these women are being funded by western NGO’s and they have their own objectives. They usually pick up 20 women from whole country and would show them on the media to give a wrong picture.
Sith- Brother, don’t worry about these atheists. This is a full time paid job for few and soon you would work that out. They have a call centre somewhere where they are all sitting next to each other and do 8 hours shift but few are here 24 hours and their name suggest that too. So ignore few and if in doubt let me now “HERE” and I would give you the list of the people you would never be able to convince.
Birdie - Nothing new he said and therfore been ignored again.
Rest of it after my Friday prayer after all I have to pray for all of you that may Allah open your mind and heart and may Allah give you strength and ability to study Islam yourselves instead of going onto websites for copy and paste matter.
I have heard all that before Naomi. And to answer your question, its not only Iranian & Kurdish women who are doing that. There are others too in other countries and there are two reason behind that. First reason is that they are supposed to be Muslim countries but are not being run under Islamic law because they are afraid to as they do not want to upset few others. So you can’t blame Islam for that and then second reason is that most of these women are being funded by western NGO’s and they have their own objectives. They usually pick up 20 women from whole country and would show them on the media to give a wrong picture.
Sith- Brother, don’t worry about these atheists. This is a full time paid job for few and soon you would work that out. They have a call centre somewhere where they are all sitting next to each other and do 8 hours shift but few are here 24 hours and their name suggest that too. So ignore few and if in doubt let me now “HERE” and I would give you the list of the people you would never be able to convince.
Birdie - Nothing new he said and therfore been ignored again.
Rest of it after my Friday prayer after all I have to pray for all of you that may Allah open your mind and heart and may Allah give you strength and ability to study Islam yourselves instead of going onto websites for copy and paste matter.
Keyplus, You know nothing about ethnic minority Women’s Rights groups, so you make it up. Here you are. Educate yourself.
http://ikwro.org.uk/contact/
http://www.imkaan.org.uk/
And Amnesty International says this:
WHY WE WORK ON WOMEN'S RIGHTS: Simply being born female can mean automatic and systematic disadvantage. Women and girls are still fighting for the most basic right of control over their own bodies and their own lives. Women face discrimination and violence at the hands of the state, the community and the family.
As for the rest, you make yourself more ridiculous with every post.
http://ikwro.org.uk/contact/
http://www.imkaan.org.uk/
And Amnesty International says this:
WHY WE WORK ON WOMEN'S RIGHTS: Simply being born female can mean automatic and systematic disadvantage. Women and girls are still fighting for the most basic right of control over their own bodies and their own lives. Women face discrimination and violence at the hands of the state, the community and the family.
As for the rest, you make yourself more ridiculous with every post.
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