Quizzes & Puzzles5 mins ago
Sexual Discrimination
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Which religion has the worst record for sexual discrimination?
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Sith, I have watched the video. Somehow I missed the bit where the woman was beaten to death and then burnt to death (ie being killed twice). But as you say these would be local practises carried out for cultural reasons and not advocated by the hindu holy book. Probably no worse than being stoned to death or being beheaded as advocated in ther koran.
Boxy, //just because people are of the same religion, it doesn't mean they have the same view of that religion or follow it to the same degree as the next person. //
I agree - but the problem is that many people intent on defending the moderate tend to ignore, and often excuse, the extreme by immediately saying 'they aren't all like that'.
I agree - but the problem is that many people intent on defending the moderate tend to ignore, and often excuse, the extreme by immediately saying 'they aren't all like that'.
this is an interesting thread, but i am surprised it's still going, as to learning more about Islam, no thanks, i have enough trying to get my head around the absurdity of Christianity, with it's similar outlook, behind the times, and so i shan't be taking up the offer any day soon. As an atheist i don't care for any religion, so i am not just taking up the cudgel against Islam specifically, however it does seem to be steeped in ancient ritual and the Qua ran open to many interpretations, the same as the bible.
Actually, having read again Keyplus’ suggestions for teaching me, I think Jom is right. It does say more about what is inside his head than he realises. I wonder how he would propose to ‘take’ me to India and ‘convince’ me to marry a Hindu? I think he might meet with just a little more opposition from a female than he’s accustomed to. ;o)
This thread has gone past 170 posts and still few people believe that it has not been answered. The reason is because few people again due to misconceptions spanning over 1000 years believe that Islam is the worst. Few people (Birdie) post verses from Quran out of context. Then few people (Ratter) find Muslim faith abhorrent and inhumane because of honour killing. However if I ask him to produce one (yes just one) verse or Hadith to associate honour killing to Islam, then I am sure he wouldn’t be able to. Then there are people (Naomi) who find a video fabricated only because women suffering there is not Muslim or religion involved in this case is not Islam. Then there are people like Jomifl that are more than willing to accept “Sati” as a local culture when Sati is a pure religious ritual found in Hindu mythology. A practice that does not need anything on the part of women more than that her husband died, but on the other hand is talking about women being stoned or beheaded due to a sin by the judicial system. And then again look at his knowledge about Islam that he declares there that it is advocated I the Koran. However same here that if I were to ask him to produce the evidence then he would change the subject.
Finally this is for SAMMMO who is new here and believes that any religion that considers women lesser than man is stupid religion. What about this then, who is lesser here in the following hadith?
Hadith - Bukhari 8.2, Narrated Abu Huraira
A man came to Allah's Apostle and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Who is more entitled to be treated with the best companionship by me?" The Prophet said, "Your mother." The man said. "Who is next?" The Prophet said, "Your mother." The man further said, "Who is next?" The Prophet said, "Your mother." The man asked for the fourth time, "Who is next?" The Prophet said, "Your father."
I can give a lot more but there is no point as few people only want the answers they want to see.
Finally this is for SAMMMO who is new here and believes that any religion that considers women lesser than man is stupid religion. What about this then, who is lesser here in the following hadith?
Hadith - Bukhari 8.2, Narrated Abu Huraira
A man came to Allah's Apostle and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Who is more entitled to be treated with the best companionship by me?" The Prophet said, "Your mother." The man said. "Who is next?" The Prophet said, "Your mother." The man further said, "Who is next?" The Prophet said, "Your mother." The man asked for the fourth time, "Who is next?" The Prophet said, "Your father."
I can give a lot more but there is no point as few people only want the answers they want to see.
Keyplus, you can answer the question quite easily if you know anything about other religions which you claim to have studied extensively (along with Sith). However since you have not answered the question I can only presume that you don't want to because don't like the answer. As for the local custom cop out, It either works both ways or not at all.
I think you should apologise to Naomi for your disgraceful earlier post, it really should have been reported but it does at least enable people to see you for what you are.
I think you should apologise to Naomi for your disgraceful earlier post, it really should have been reported but it does at least enable people to see you for what you are.
I finally see the point and must apologise, Keyplus, for assuming that the treatment of woman in many Islamic states is in any way connected with the Koran or the Haddith, but is a result of unfortunate cultural conditioning unrelated to religion.
So Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Somalia, Morocco, Afghanistan etc. are all acting in ways condemned by the Koran in letter and in spirit when they stone adulteresses, deny woman schooling, dress them in sacks etc. That is what you're saying , isn't it?
So, which are the Islamic states you approve of in respect to the treatment of women? Will it be a very long list? If so just two or three examples will do,
So Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Somalia, Morocco, Afghanistan etc. are all acting in ways condemned by the Koran in letter and in spirit when they stone adulteresses, deny woman schooling, dress them in sacks etc. That is what you're saying , isn't it?
So, which are the Islamic states you approve of in respect to the treatment of women? Will it be a very long list? If so just two or three examples will do,
Keyplus, I didn’t say the video was fabricated – I said the title was fabricated – and it was. It is entitled ‘Woman beaten to death (India)’. I’ve watched it and I saw no one beaten to death.
//Then there are people like Jomifl that are more than willing to accept “Sati” as a local culture when Sati is a pure religious ritual found in Hindu mythology.//
Not true. References to it in Hindu mythology are rare, and in some instances disputed entirely as later additions. It is not, by any stretch of the imagination, common practice. It is illegal - and it is certainly not a religious requirement.
Honour killing: As far as I’m aware, the Koran doesn’t directly mention honour killings. It does, however, command that wayward wives are left to die, presumably of starvation.
Quran- 4:15 “If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four (reliable) witness from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them. Or God ordain for them some (other) way.”
Stoning: I won’t change the subject as you claim Jom might – although I doubt very much he would. Stoning, is as you say, decided by judicial systems – which are themselves founded upon, and regulated by, Islamic literature - in which you will find the punishment endorsed by Mohammed more than once.
As for your hadith, let’s have a look at some of the misogyny your literature really includes.
“If two men be not available, then a man and two women, of such as you approve as witnesses, so that if either of the two women should forget, then one may remind the other……..”
“The Prophet said, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said, "Yes." he said, "this is because of the deficiency of a woman’s mind."
“When the Prophet heard the news that the people of the Persia had made the daughter of Khosrau their Queen (ruler), he said, "Never will succeed such a nation as makes a woman their ruler."
^^ (Tell that to Queen Victoria!).
If women are so well treated within Islam, as you claim, can you tell me why such organisations as The Iranian & Kurdish Women's Rights Organisation, or Imkaan, exist – both of which are fighting injustice – and worse – against women within Islam?
Jom, I wouldn’t expect an apology from Keyplus. I’m a woman.
//Then there are people like Jomifl that are more than willing to accept “Sati” as a local culture when Sati is a pure religious ritual found in Hindu mythology.//
Not true. References to it in Hindu mythology are rare, and in some instances disputed entirely as later additions. It is not, by any stretch of the imagination, common practice. It is illegal - and it is certainly not a religious requirement.
Honour killing: As far as I’m aware, the Koran doesn’t directly mention honour killings. It does, however, command that wayward wives are left to die, presumably of starvation.
Quran- 4:15 “If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four (reliable) witness from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them. Or God ordain for them some (other) way.”
Stoning: I won’t change the subject as you claim Jom might – although I doubt very much he would. Stoning, is as you say, decided by judicial systems – which are themselves founded upon, and regulated by, Islamic literature - in which you will find the punishment endorsed by Mohammed more than once.
As for your hadith, let’s have a look at some of the misogyny your literature really includes.
“If two men be not available, then a man and two women, of such as you approve as witnesses, so that if either of the two women should forget, then one may remind the other……..”
“The Prophet said, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said, "Yes." he said, "this is because of the deficiency of a woman’s mind."
“When the Prophet heard the news that the people of the Persia had made the daughter of Khosrau their Queen (ruler), he said, "Never will succeed such a nation as makes a woman their ruler."
^^ (Tell that to Queen Victoria!).
If women are so well treated within Islam, as you claim, can you tell me why such organisations as The Iranian & Kurdish Women's Rights Organisation, or Imkaan, exist – both of which are fighting injustice – and worse – against women within Islam?
Jom, I wouldn’t expect an apology from Keyplus. I’m a woman.
A father murdered his 16 years old daughter because of suspicion
2 March 2009, by Iran Human Rights
50 honor killings in the last 7 months in Iran, according to the Iranian official
29 November 2008, by Iran Human Rights
A father strangled his 14 years old daughter because of her suspicious behaviour
2 November 2008, by Iran Human Rights
A man hanged his own sister because she wanted to marry a man she loved
15 June 2008, by Iran Human Rights
A father killed his 18 years old daughter in Birjand
20 May 2008, by Iran Human Rights
Father killed his daughter with a hammer and burned her body
19 May 2008, by Iran Human Rights
A father killed his daughter in Isfahan- Another father buried his daughter alive in Tehran
13 May 2008, by Iran Human Rights
A 14 years old girl stoned to death by her father
15 February 2008, by Iran Human Rights
Sahi Muslim No. 4206:
“A woman came to the prophet and asked for purification by seeking punishment. He told her to go away and seek God’s forgiveness. She persisted four times and admitted she was pregnant. He told her to wait until she had given birth. Then he said that the Muslim community should wait until she had weaned her child. When the day arrived for the child to take solid food, Muhammad handed the child over to the community. And when he had given command over her and she was put in a hole up to her breast, he ordered the people to stone her. Khalid b. al-Walid came forward with a stone which he threw at her head, and when the blood spurted on her face he cursed her
All cut and paste
There are further examples the longer the faithful delude themselves the longer it continues
2 March 2009, by Iran Human Rights
50 honor killings in the last 7 months in Iran, according to the Iranian official
29 November 2008, by Iran Human Rights
A father strangled his 14 years old daughter because of her suspicious behaviour
2 November 2008, by Iran Human Rights
A man hanged his own sister because she wanted to marry a man she loved
15 June 2008, by Iran Human Rights
A father killed his 18 years old daughter in Birjand
20 May 2008, by Iran Human Rights
Father killed his daughter with a hammer and burned her body
19 May 2008, by Iran Human Rights
A father killed his daughter in Isfahan- Another father buried his daughter alive in Tehran
13 May 2008, by Iran Human Rights
A 14 years old girl stoned to death by her father
15 February 2008, by Iran Human Rights
Sahi Muslim No. 4206:
“A woman came to the prophet and asked for purification by seeking punishment. He told her to go away and seek God’s forgiveness. She persisted four times and admitted she was pregnant. He told her to wait until she had given birth. Then he said that the Muslim community should wait until she had weaned her child. When the day arrived for the child to take solid food, Muhammad handed the child over to the community. And when he had given command over her and she was put in a hole up to her breast, he ordered the people to stone her. Khalid b. al-Walid came forward with a stone which he threw at her head, and when the blood spurted on her face he cursed her
All cut and paste
There are further examples the longer the faithful delude themselves the longer it continues
Some interesting points, I don't think the case has so far been made for Hindi being more discriminatory than Islam. Suttee was a custom rather than a religious requirement and was not very common from what I have read. It is a pity that it is not possible to nominate a 'worst answer' as there is one outstanding candidate for that dubious accolade.
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