The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity.

[sandyRoe]

While I'm not suggesting that the AB atheists are the worst, this line might explain why the atheist v theist debate seems so one sided.
Agree?

[sith123]

sorry, thought you were talking to me. ignore that post, or read it if you want.

[naomi24]

Sith, //You talk about all these child marriages and whatever like they happen all the time.//

They do – and they’re happening in this country right now – but according to you there are so few that it doesn’t matter. Well, it does matter. One child abused is one too many. This not women’s rights – it’s children’s rights – and that is something that should concern us all – even you!

From Birdie: //I (and others) pointed out that a child cannot give their consent to such a union.//

From you: //Why not?//

Because they are children, and children are not capable of making an informed decision on something as serious and as life-changing as marriage. You say you wouldn’t marry your child off at an early age, but you won’t give a reason because you won’t criticise those parents that do – and neither will you criticise the dirty old men who make their penchant for sex with children ‘respectable’ through sham marriages. What on earth is wrong with you, Sith? Think! The welfare of children is more important than any religion or culture – and any right thinking person should care!

As for women converting, we’ve been through this. Your wife converted because she married you. Keyplus’ wife converted because she married him. Women, in the main, convert to Islam because they marry Muslims. That’s all. If they married men of a different faith, no doubt they’d convert to that. And never forget, western women marry men from all sorts of societies. Islam doesn’t hold a monopoly on mixed culture marriages. Look around you.

[jomifl]

Sith, you have compomised your intllectual integrity so much by your apologistic attitude to your fellow believers that nothing you say is worthy of consideration and merits only a short comment.

[vetuste_ennemi]

He's a little b****r our Sith. There he goes again, denying the antecedent and affirming the disjunct.

[sith123]

naomi, sorry to say so again, but i have given a good enough reason. I have said that i would not do it as i think it is wrong. That surely is a good enough reason and also explains my view in one word on this topic.

//As for women converting, we’ve been through this. Your wife converted because she married you. Keyplus’ wife converted because she married him. Women, in the main, convert to Islam because they marry Muslims. That’s all. If they married men of a different faith, no doubt they’d convert to that. And never forget, western women marry men from all sorts of societies. Islam doesn’t hold a monopoly on mixed culture marriages. Look around you.//

You are still proving my point. if women married muslims than in your view why should they as apparently to you islam degrades women and abuses them, yet people of different faiths and religion marry muslims even with what is being told in the media.

[sandyRoe]

Many of these adult women who convert to Islam may be more interested in the singer than the song.

[naomi24]

Birdie, It seems to me that Sith is in a dilemma. He says it is wrong, but nevertheless defends it. He cannot condemn the practice of child marriage for one reason and for one reason only - because his religion forbids him to criticise both the Koran and Mohammed. He therefore attempts to justify his failure by claiming that girls from other countries are mentally capable of making an informed decision that will affect the rest of their lives. He knows full well that no child is equipped to make such a decision, which, although he will not admit it, is why he says he would not marry his own daughter off at an early age. However, he has no hesitation in closing his eyes to the plight of other children, simply because his religion condones it. Fundamentally, his zeal for his new found faith has caused him not only to abandon his own intellect, undermining his own credibility in the process, but has resulted in him voluntarily, and quite shamefully, abrogating his moral responsibility to humanity. He is lying to himself.

Keyplus, on the other hand, was born and raised a Muslim in a Muslim country, and, although it might disappoint Sith, who tries so hard to be a bona fide Muslim, he and Keyplus do not share a similar mindset. Keyplus lacks education, and appears to hold a sincere, but erroneous, belief that the moment a girl reaches puberty she undergoes a magical transformation from child to woman, and therefore instantly becomes marriageable. He doesn’t view men who want to have sex with children as sick individuals – which is what they are – he doesn’t give that a moment’s thought - but rather believes that marriage at an early age will secure a girl’s future, and for that reason, he would have no hesitation in marrying his own young daughter to a grown man. Unlike Sith, it appears Keyplus genuinely doesn’t know right from wrong.

Sith, if you think it is wrong, why don’t you criticise those who do it instead of making excuses for them?

As for western women marrying Muslims, see Sandy’s reply.

[sith123]

//“Many of these adult women who convert to Islam may be more interested in the singer than the song.” //

this still goes to show that muslims themselves than must be good people and nice people, not oppressive people. If a women marries a muslim and converts with everything that is being said in the media than she must know that a lot of what is in the media is lies or over exaggerated and if they are Christian or jew than a muslim can marry them and they do not need to convert, although it is much preferred. It is common sense that with every thing negative about muslims in the media now a days, women are still marrying muslim men of their own accord. A lot also convert. So this must show that they study the religion and see something which is right.

[sith123]

birdie, i have said i do not agree with it. that is a good enough reason. I am not supporting it or doing it, am i?

//I don't know how you sleep at night.//

i sleep rather well as i do not do these things, nor do i want to and i do not know anyone who does. so it does not effect me. as i have said many times i think it is wrong, but of course to you that will not make you agree. you want me to condemn the whole religion of course, which i will not.

[naomi24]

Sith, //It is common sense…//

You have the gall to talk about common sense? You wouldn’t recognise common sense if it jumped up and hit you on the head! The plight of children at the hands of men you refuse to criticise doesn’t affect you, so you don’t care. You say you’re not supporting it, but in effect that’s exactly what you’re doing. This is happening – and it’s happening right now - here in this country – and the perpetrators are men of your adopted religion, who justify it directly through your religious literature, but all you can do is tell us what ‘good and nice people’ Muslims are, and talk about love-smitten, women who, like you, can see no farther than the ends of their own noses. Sith, you are a lost cause.

[sith123]

birdie //You are trapped in a mental prison that forces you to condone barbaric and abusive practices due to your fear of 'insulting' your god.//

if this is a mental prison, you must be the stupid interrogator.

Naomi, you are saying that i am doing nothing to stop it. I have said it is wrong. What else do you expect me to do? what are you doing? i dont see you campaigning? you can speak big on this site but in real life what are you actually doing? Nothing probably. You can say whatever you want here because no one can see you. I bet in real life youre a wimp. simple as. Even if you are doing something, that requires you to listen to others views, something you obviously cannot do.

You say that i do not know common sense, it is you who does not. it is common sense that if for any reason i agreed with it why would i still be here, on this thread arguing that i dont? Are you that mad? i have said, over and over and over again that i think it is wrong. If you are a bit slow please tell me, then i will happilly take my time to explain my views to you but i do not think that you are. What i do think you are is a stuck up women who wont listen to anyones views unless it is identical to your own. That is what you are.

Just for all the people who may not know what my views are on the subject, i have clearly said that i think it is WRONG and that i would not do it, practice it or encourage it. However a lot of it is cultural, which i cannot stop, and a lot of it takes place in other countries. I am British and was born in England. I do not live their nor do i know anyone in those countries. If this is still not a clear answer for you than god help you. No joking, seriously, god help you.

[jomifl]

Sith, You could begin by talking to your fellow muslims and you imam. Then you could ask your imam what he is doing about it and if your fellow muslims won't do anything then you will know the truth about them and your religion. I suspect however that you are too much of a wimp to stand up to the people that you look up to.