Do you need moral guidance?

[naomi24]

http://www.channel4.c...thoughttv/4od#3314326

I found the implications of this video rather disturbing. This man appears to be saying that he adheres to an acceptable moral code only because he fears the negative consequences of his actions - as taught by Islam - in the next life. He then talks about children needing moral guidance, but still he relies upon an outside source – Islam and the Koran - to provide it. Surely, as an adult, he knows right from wrong, and should be capable of living a decent lifestyle, and of teaching his children to do the same without abnegating his responsibility and without this feeble dependency?

[jomifl]

Woofgang, If you truly believed you would follow instructions to the letter on the assumption that either you were being tested or that god's ways are far too profound for mere mortals to understand. In truth you do not really believe do you?

[sandyRoe]

God told Abraham: 'kill me a son...' And he would have too. Now, there's faith.

[woofgang]

Hw can you possibly know what I think, jomifli?

[mibn2cweus]

//If the god i believe in and pray to started wanting me to do things i thought were wrong then he/she wouldn't be my god any more.....simples.....//

How would you determine whether what god wants is right or wrong when god is your standard for making such determinations?

[woofgang]

who said that god was my standard?

[jomifl]

Woofang, I cannot possibly know what you think, I can however read what you write. If as you said you have a god that is worth believing in and praying to, then he/she is worth obeying too. If you can disobey your god then you do not believe. Simples.

[woofgang]

jomifli that is your concept of belief, not mine.

[jomifl]

Woofgang, I was using the generally accepted meaning of the word 'belief' as applied to religion. If you are using a different meaning of the word then there is no point discussing this point any further. It appears that you do have your own moral code apart from any/that imposed by your god, so your answer to Naomi's question would be no.

[beso]

jomifl "... Does this mean that atheists have a more keenly developed moral sense than believers? "

Yes, potentially but not essentially.

However it can be said with some sertainty that the most developed sense of morality in an atheist will far exceed that of any person with religious persuasions. Abrahamic philosophy makes a complete hash of morality and drives its adherents deeply into the territory of fascist ideology.

[tamborine]

"...there isn't a consistent set of values in western liberal society ...."

We have laws to protect ourselves & families in WLS. Your Gods will not protect you from our laws.

Our laws are man made, break them and you will suffer the consequences.

[naomi24]

It seems a lot of people manufacture their own version of a Christian God which so often turns out to be a God of spite, completely devoid of the love, compassion and kindness promoted by the standard version.

[keyplus90]

One and half minute of a clip about Islam has attracted more than 70 pots.

Naomi ////OG, most of us are, hopefully, aware of what is socially acceptable behaviour and what is not.///

Do we really? Only until very recently few very intelligent and respected people believed that hating blacks was an acceptable behaviour. If you were there at that time I am sure you would have agreed with them.

Finally, If people do not need fear to be morally right then why countries are wasting money on law and order? Why have speed limits, why CCTV, don’t need police at all, judges can go and do gardening. Few people will still dodge them by hiring Mr Loophole. I can go on and on but few people will never understand.

[keyplus90]

And the reason they will never understand is because they like to see logic in everything. But common sense is more stronger than logic. And as I said before there is no university providing a degree in common sense.

[Brenden]

Are you saying keyplus that in future infidels will be acceptable as equals to Islam. Being brought to live life by the 10 commandments does it for me.

[naomi24]

Keyplus, why you count posts, I have no idea. I’ve told you before, long threads are not an accolade to Islam – in fact usually quite the reverse. Read them.

//If people do not need fear to be morally right then why countries are wasting money on law and order?//

So just like the man in the video, you too are devoid of a sense of common decency, and obey the law only because you are afraid of punishment in an afterlife. CCTV doesn’t bother the majority of the population, because they are civilised, respectable people and they are law-abiding for the right reasons – not because they are under surveillance by the police or by an imaginary God – but that is clearly beyond your comprehension.

//Only until very recently few very intelligent and respected people believed that hating blacks was an acceptable behaviour. If you were there at that time I am sure you would have agreed with them.//

You’re sure, are you? Actually, Keyplus, that is completely unjustifiable and it is libellous - and you have overstepped the line. However, since it serves very well to confirm that you are indeed devoid not only of an intrinsic sense of common decency, but of one iota of common sense too, I won’t hold my breath for an apology.

Brenden, I’m happy with the last six – but the first four leave much to be desired.

[Brenden]

I don't think I know of anybody naomi who has kept all ten.

[naomi24]

Ha ha! I don't doubt that, Brenden. :o)

[keyplus90]

A famous phrase is "law abiding" not law fearing. You have to respect the law before you could abide by it. My father a total illiterate person, once differentiated between these two things "fear and respect" in a couple of words. He was against smoking and saw my brother smoking once. My brother quickly threw the cigarette when he saw father. My father told him to carry on if he feared him as most probably he would once father is not there again. However if he respected his father then he would not smoke even if he (father) was not watching him and therefore he would rather if my brother respect him and not fear him. Therefore majority of people do not fear but respect the laws or the guidelines given by the creator. But you do not have to worry as for you neither hereafter nor God exist.

But I do hope you abide by the law not because of CCTV, fine, and other fears but because you respect the law. Unfortunately with all these things still people do not feel safe and imagine what if it is not there? However if majority of the people start doing that then we do not really need Police, law and force. Or otherwise get rid of law, police, penalty and punishment only for ONE DAY and see what happens.

[naomi24]

Keyplus, I have the greatest respect for the law, and I have no reason to fear it - but that isn’t because I think I’m being watched by some beady eyed, malevolent God who has concocted a vindictive punishment for me – or even a policeman. It’s because, like most people, I am a responsible adult, I choose to live in a civilised manner, and I have no compulsion to break the law. You need to grow up.

[beso]

keyplus90 wrote //A famous phrase is "law abiding" not law fearing. //

And the other famous phrase is "God fearing" rather than "God respecting".

The laws of the holly books do not come from a creator but primitive, ignorant, arrogant, misogynistic men.