Religion, has it been a benefit?

[Father-Ted]

Has religion been an overall to benefit to mankind or would we have been better off without it.

[vetuste_ennemi]

Solveitquick, the way I see it is this. The New Testament shows quite clearly the tensions which existed in the early church between the original followers of Jesus of Nazareth and the brilliant new convert Paul of Tarsus who saw the sect’s potential as a global brand. Paul ditched the Mosaic law, developed his own take on the crucifixation with his atonement doctrine and adopted a generally more Hellinistic style which would be more appealing when inviting the Gentiles ("other sheep who are not of this fold") to sign up. The miraculous conception was probably dreamed up at this time. Pauline Christianity, we know, came out on top and later concoctions like the Gospel of John would become quite anti-Jewish ("his blood be on our hands and those of our children" - the "Jews" speaking). Hence the air-brushed depictions of western iconography, not to mention the notorious anti-Semitism of the Catholic church.
By the way, Goodlife is not quoting form his/her Christian Bible. He/she is quoting verbatim from a Watchtower article.

[sith123]

ive made my point. Believe it or not, if the golden age of islam never happened the rennaisance would not have happened as they borrowed a lot of their ideas from Islamic art and science and hence things wouldnt be as advanced now. So i believe that religion has been an almighty benefit and theres no getting rid of it;)

[beso]

sith // if the golden age of islam never happened the rennaisance would not have happened as they borrowed a lot of their ideas from Islamic art and science //

False. The contribution of some moslems to the advancement of science does not imply that science would not have happened without Islam.

Other Moslems made a habit of torching whole libraries of books because they were sure the Koran only book required. There is little doubt that a vast amount of ancient knowledge was lost and had to be rediscovered.

Religion has, and continues to, set back the advancement of science and the development of ethics.

[jake-the-peg]

I wouldn't be so fast to dismiss that Beso

Sith's claim was that the rennaissance wouldn't have happened not that science wouldn't have.

The Translation movement in the Islamic golden age save countless works of antiquity and we owe them a great debt from that.

Without it the rennaissance as we know it couln't have happened.

However that doesn't mean we'd still be in the dark ages without it - there were religious reform movements like the Lollards before the rennaissance and many scientific movements were not built on ancient texts - many like Galen and Aristotle actively held back Science.

We should be grateful to Islam for saving all of those works but not over estimate their contribution to Science.

[beso]

The Catholic Church took a similar path. They were once very keen on the development of science. I have heard it said that they did so because they anticipated that science would ultimately support their religious understanding of the universe. The turnaround happend when science started undermining the tenets of theit faith.

Is this what happened with Islam too?

[jomifl]

We mustn't forget that islamic science was based on Greek philosophy....it's all about' standing on the shoulders of giants'.

[sith123]

//We mustn't forget that islamic science was based on Greek philosophy//

even so, greeks were religious

[jomifl]

And if they hadn't been held back by religion, who knows what they would have achieved :-)

[sith123]

nice comeback jom, but i think the question has been answered.

[sith123]

i personally, believe religion to be a benefit.

[sith123]

have i said birdie that religion is only good? no. there are both bad people and good people. But youre like a blind dog who follows the rest and says that if one religious person, or a minority are bad, than the whole religion must be bad. I do not agree with that.

And in the end birdie it is my opinion and my view. face it. Not everyone agrees with you.

[jomifl]

Sith, we are by now pretty well aware of your views on religion, it would be useful if you could explain the reasoning that led you to hold those views. You might even gain some converts to Islam!

[beso]

The fundamental tentets of religion demand the suspension of reason and the abrogation of responsiblity for one's motives and behaviour. Those who follow religion don't think, they just do what the oligarchs of their church tell them.

So as instructed, they hate homosexual people, allocate inferior rights to women and fail to respect children, all without the slightest thought and because some ancient, ignorant, bigotted, misogynist men decide long ago that an imaginary all powerful deity held those views. Of course they were nothing more than the views the those same ignorant men.

With such foundations it is inevitabe that religion will continue stand in the way of the quest for humans to be the best we can be and as such religion, on the balance, always was and will always be a bad thing.

[sith123]

i will explain why i hold my views. As i have said all religion, but i will talk about islam, have given key contributions to art, music and science. During the 900s-1400s Arabian doctors were far more advanced and better than western doctors. They also had key contributions to art, for muslims particularly caligraphy. They built magnificent buildings and architecture most of which can still be seen even in western places like Spain. The renaisancce was caused by the west carrying on from the muslims and these, especially in places like italy were christian or catholic.

Yes, you could argue about things that were bad like the Crusades but in a way they also helped religion. It got the west to see that there were other religions out there and other ways of life other than christianity. After the crusades the west was more aware of religions like Islam and judaism and therefore they started to interact more.

Also religions create a community and a brotherhood for people. They help you meet new people, they provide equality and get rid of racism as many people follow a religion from different backgrounds.

So these are some of the reasons i believe religion to be a benefit.

[jomifl]

Sith, that was a pretty good explanation thanks, you did leave god out though :-)

[beso]

sith //As i have said all religion, but i will talk about islam, have given key contributions to art, music and science.//

These are not contributions by religion per se but by people who followed the faiths. Isaac Newton was a believer and actually wrote more words about religion than he did on gravity, motion and optics combined. Despite this, his work in physics cannot be described as a contribution by religion.

Indeed, had he not wasted so much time on religious contmplations he may well have made a greater contribution to science. He did actually ponder some of the basic questions about motion that later underpinned Einstein's Relativity.

[beso]

sith //Also religions create a community and a brotherhood for people. They help you meet new people, they provide equality and get rid of racism as many people follow a religion from different backgrounds.//

They replace racism with a prejudice about the religious belief. The great Abrahamic vision of Armageddon sees several different gods massacre all those who do not adhere to the "one true faith".

Despite the progress in interfaith dialog and a purported acknowledgement of the validity of other faiths just try asking a a Christian minister if they are willing to discard the notion that salvation is achievable "only throuh Jesus Christ".

I watch a television program about interfaith dialog and the minister was very forthcoming with platitudes until he was confronted by that question. He fell silent.