What makes atheists think their wiser than everyone else?

[sith123]

prompted by an earlier question.

[Nibble]

"Ding-ding" "seconds out" page 9,quotes 161 - let the games begin!

Yawn, stop boring each other - you'll never win this discussion, let's agree to disagree and MOVE ON!

[Andyvon]

The very same belief and commitment that makes believers think that they are wiser than atheists. At the end of the day believers and non-believers exhibit exactly the same traits and commitment as each other. Both are convinced that they are right and everyone else is wrong. There's actually no difference between them except for the details of their belief.

[naomi24]

Andy, you're mistaken. Atheists don't hold a 'belief' - and most of them, if asked, will give rational reasons for their absence of belief.

[wildwood]

^^Just as not believing in the tooth fairy or Santa is not a 'belief'.

[Andyvon]

Naomi - atheists DO have a belief. They believe that there is no god. That's their belief and they are as committed in their views as those who believe in a supreme being.

[naomi24]

Not true Andy. Atheism equates to absence of belief - and, logically, that cannot possibly be 'belief'. That said, if evidence of a god were forthcoming, atheists freely admit they would change their opinions - something that those committed to a belief would find very difficult to do. There is no comparison.

[jomifl]

Andy, Atheists don't 'believe there is no god', they have no reason to believe that there is one. The difference is subtle but important the first relies on the acceptance of 'belief' ie not requiring evidence or proof. The second requires no acceptance of belief.

[FredPuli43]

Does not religion depend on what earlier people wrote, thought, and say they witnessed?

Scientist do not believe that something must be so because earlier people wrote, thought, and say they witnessed. If they did, we would still think that the Sun went around the Earth, among other beliefs which our ancestors held.

Does your religion require you to believe things which your ancestors believed to be true, sith? Does it require you to reject evolution, for example?

Scientists now, and in the past, may have religious beliefs. There may come a time when those beliefs conflict with the evidence before them. Galilieo had that problem. In the end, the leaders of his religion had to admit, as they tactfully explained it, there had been unsound interpretation of the holy book.

Do you expect any such misinterpretation of your religion's holy writings ?

[joko]

there are two differnt meanings of 'belief'

one is about a deepseated fundamantal system of living - religion

the other is just a word of grammar - such as i believe i am feeling a bit peckish, i believe my friend likes coldplay, i believe my car is about to breakdown..

so in that sense atheists do believe... they believe that they dont believe in god.

[Johnysid]

I wonder what fate holds in store for those who leave the Islamic faith?

"This commentary (Tafsir) comes from a famous Pakistani scholar, Maulana Mufti Muhammad Shafi. Some of today’s Muslim fundamentalists regard it as one of the finest commentaries available in English. On verse 2:217:

In short, the fate of an apostate is worse than that of an original disbeliever. This is why Jizyah can be accepted from an original disbeliever while a male apostate who does not return to Islam is killed. If the apostate is a woman, she is imprisoned for life. The reason is that their conduct insults Islam and the insult of such a binding authority deserves no less a punishment.[9]"

[NOX]

Joko is of course completely correct, as anyone should be able to see.
Quite why this constant argument crops up that atheists have no belief in anything I really fail to see when it's clear that they are all happy to say
'I have no belief in god existing'.
It's irrational therefore to say that they hold no 'belief'. Whilst it's true that atheism is not a religion, it's still a belief- whether they like it or not.

[jomifl]

And that Nox is what separates believers from atheists..believers try to fit the fact to their dogma. Atheists on the other hand don't have a dogma so leave the facts as they are and learn to live with them.

[mibn2cweus]

Living within ones means applies no less to living within the context of ones knowledge based on or logically deduced from an understanding of ones own first hand observations and experience.

An atheist is someone who does not believe in the existence of a god or gods, with or without reason not withstanding. Nothing more can be meaningfully said about an atheist without further qualification. Atheism qua atheism does not specify what if any beliefs a given atheist might hold, only that they do not believe in the existence of a god or gods, however one might or might not attempt to define such a supposed entity.

Atheists are not inherently wiser than anyone else, however unwise, irrational and potentially destructive in consequence it might be to believe in the arbitrary without or in spite of reason, especially with regards to an alleged creator and overseer of reality.

[jomifl]

Nox, perhaps you need a simpler explanation... Atheists do not believe in god, ie. they have no belief in god. No belief is not disbelief, it is lack of belief. Atheists do not believe that god does not exist because that presupposes the existence of the concept of a god being able to exist. Since the concept of a god existing makes no sense to an atheist then it is not possible to to believe in the presence or absence of a god. This is a concept that believers are unable to understand because they have not been exposed to it when their brains were adaptable enough. So if you don't understand it don't worry, you probably never will along with millions of others.:-)

[naomi24]

Ditto Jom and Mibs.

[Zacs-Master]

177 and counting......

[NOX]

Jomifl- you have made the mistake of taking me for one of your 'believers' because I find your pedantic, patronising ways tiresome. I do not subscribe to the existance of any superhuman being responsible for the creation of earth etc etc etc- but I do think that people who do should be free to express their opinions without being ridiculed. Nothing in any of your 'explainations' has altered my opinion that atheists do in fact have a belief in their lack of belief, but thanks ever so for trying to dumb it down enough for me to understand- I promise to try harder to understand what you tell me, just as soon as I've burned away another few thousand brain cells to get me on a roughly even keel with you.

[venator]

We seem to have a problem with the word "believe".

Atheists don't "not believe", as there is nothing there for them to believe in. Blank - zilch - emptiness.

[naomi24]

Venator, you got it in one.