One For The Atheists:

[keyplus90]

In case anyone's interested where I'm coming from..........

http://d1.islamhouse....he_red_underpants.pdf

[jake-the-peg]

Fundamental flaw in the logic in this article

We are being invited to believe that our human experience which is gained in very limited experience is applicable Universally

It's as if two gold fish were talking

And one says to the other - I've been talking to this other fish and he tells me that there could be a world outside of this bowl where the water gets so hot it vanishes

Don't be silly says the other goldfish - have you ever experienced such a condition? Water is always water and cannot simply vanish no matter how hot it gets

It's common sense


Isn't it?

[ludwig]

^ they probably keep having that conversation every few seconds.

[jake-the-peg]

Incidently having skimmed the rest of the book I notice that his argument basically procedes to conclude that there must be one God and use various arguments to elliminate all other contenders until we are left with Islam.

There is of course a massive logical flaw in this.

He does not consider that *all* religions might be wrong

He applies a test of Universality that religion is for everyone - I might very well argue that the true religion must be universal in it's applicability to all people all around the world - all people worshiping the same way with the same rules applied to them be they black or white, rich or poor man or woman.

Whoops did I just say man or woman?

Oh dear that rather eliminates Islam as well as an awful lot of other religions too!

Looks like we're back to square one looking for the true religion then doesn't it.


Must go there's a guy in his underpants come to read the meter!

[mibn2cweus]

Order does not arise spontaneously, as the man in red underpants suggests by invoking the pre-existence of a necessarily highly ordered and intelligent god. Order arises due to the presence of matter under the influence of gravity. To presume that intelligent design came first negates the whole process by which intelligence arises ignoring the billions of years of evolution that made the existence of intelligence and purposeful action possible . . . end of story.

[jake-the-peg]

//Order does not arise spontaneously//

No an angel makes every snowflake by hand

[jomifl]

I gave up on the bit where order is apparently imposed by an intelligence.
Does that mean that every snowflake that falls from the sky has been designed and built by god? I think not. Try again Keyplus.

[jomifl]

Snap Jake :-)

[mibn2cweus]

//No an angel makes every snowflake by hand//

You'd think that would keep them busy and out of trouble. ;o)

[vetuste_ennemi]

<<Does God make every snowflake by hand?>>
Al Ghazali did think that, apparently - all things are sustained by the will of Allah - and advanced it as a reason not to pursue naturalistic explanations of universe. This (some have adduced) is the reason for the decline in Islamic science.

[vetuste_ennemi]

Al Ghazali = Sufi in red shorts.

[modeller]

Hello keyplus Could you help me on the question of Ramadan fasting .?
I can't find the answer in the Quaran . Now I understand the principle of denial.
In Islam it's expressed through Ramadan but what I can't understand is why it appears to be negated everywhere by overeating every evening to the extent of eating far more than you would normally eat during the day.

[lightbulb247]

youre not supposed to overeat. you just eat normally.

[keyplus90]

Modeller - To answer your question about Ramzan I can only say that it is personal problem. Few people do eat like it is the last meal of their life and they do that all of the time. Nothing to do with religion. Otherwise when it comes to religion (Quran and Hadith that is) then there are very clear instructions about how much to eat. Having said that what is too much for one may not be enough for the other so it all depends upon individuals.

[naomi24]

Keyplus, I think most around here already know where you're coming from. Nevertheless, I have printed your man's words out and shall read them all with great interest. Thank you.

[ll_billym]

If triangles had a god, he would have three sides - Charles de Montesquieu

[modeller]

How do you classify Buddhists being as they don't believe in God

[naomi24]

Keyplus, whilst I'm getting to grips with your man, so to speak, any chance of getting your take on the video Birdie posted? You’ve been awfully quiet about that.

http://www.theanswerb...uestion1159184-1.html

[jake-the-peg]

Modeller,

In my book Budhism is still a religion as they believe in irrational concepts without basis like the soul and reincarnation

[vetuste_ennemi]

<<The Quran teaches that there is a day of judgment when God will assemble us together and we will have to answer for everything we have done…For those who rejected truth, who chose to rebel, there is a terrible punishment in store. It is a choice they made. The truth was clear to them, yet they chose to ignore it, and so an awful fate awaits them, the fire of hell, where people will be roasted and burned yet will not die, but continue to suffer eternally>>
This is a verbatim quotation from the Man in Red Underpants. What does it tell us about the moral compass of
(a) Its author?
(b) The person who recommended the book?
(c) The god they worship?