Double Standards?

[naomi24]

Whenever murder or some other appalling atrocity hits the headlines, the almost universal reaction is outrage and condemnation of the perpetrator, and from the religious - and in particular Christians - additional prayers and expressions of sorrow for the victims and their relatives. However, the God of Abraham murdered millions and - if his adherents are to be believed - he still (depending on the particular flavour of religion) promises death, damnation, or appalling and eternal torture to all dissidents – with not one word of condemnation from the faithful. How do they reconcile their acceptance of his behaviour and of this example of their blatant double standards?

[FredPuli43]

Duncer, I'm an atheist. I've no settled idea why anyone has faith or belief in any deity. I merely pointed out a feature of faith and the faithful which puzzles me as being apparently illogical.

Naomi, God smiting the enemies of the chosen people doesn't strike me as odd, when the chosen people are the ones relating the story. You may call it murder, they might choose to call it salvation of the people or clear evidence that they were indeed God's chosen people, or both. He went to some trouble on their account. Plagues, indeed, when one disease might have wiped out the lot, given the primitive state of medicine at the time. He could have made sure that the chosen people were immune, after all. Perhaps he liked the drama of plagues. Or there may be some factual basis for the story, which got exaggerated and distorted by superstitious people over time, and made a suitable tale.

[Gromit]

I live in the town where Dr. Shipman did most of his crimes. If that wasn't bad enough, the way the local church capitalised on the grief was sickening. They had prayers, vigils and special services. Most of the victims had been long dead over 10 years, but the TV cameras were in town so they put on a show. The church service was timed for a live feed to the 10 o' clock news on ITV. And everyone was in the pub by 10.30. Pissed by 11.30.

[naomi24]

Fred, but God didn't restrict his 'smiting' only to the enemies of his Chosen People - nor his torments - and however the people of the day chose to perceive it, civilised man should view it rather differently - but clearly he doesn't. I haven't got time to take this further - I'm going away in a few minutes - but, if I can, I'll get back to you later.

[sandyRoe]

Birdie, I wrote "God rolled the dice..." in response to Duncer's post.
Clearly, I don't know how God determines the future. I believe he sets his plans in motion and if there's collateral damage, it is beneath his attention.
He's both omnipotent and omnipresent. Here, too, in the AB rooms.

[FredPuli43]

Naomi, if you're asking why God inflicts mass disasters on people , you are not alone and the various religions with deities have surely been trying to explain that for quite a while. That they have succeeded in satisfying the faithful says a lot about human nature. What seems evidence against there being a deity is happily taken as evidence that there is one, but one whose actions or inaction are not immediately understood by mere mortals.

Evidently God has created the world and then left us to get on with it as we find it, disasters included. Happily, the Christian god has not stopped us developing the means of mitigating or preventing disasters, pandemics, malaria,TB, earthquakes, fires etc but he has taken a long time since the birth of his son to allow us to do so. And, to be fair, he has allowed some of the developments and discoveries, that now aid us, to be the work of non-Christians or even of atheists.

[venator]

You are all writing as though God exists.

As your God is just one among thousands of deities which have come and gone over the ages, I find this funny.

What isn't funny is the millions of people who have bben killed over the ages in the name of all the forgotten, discredited and current deities.

What a total waste of breath this all is.

You'll never convince each other that they are wrong...

[mibn2cweus]

Ironically, it is the actions taken in the name of the same religion that made them hostages of an unearned guilt that has given followers reason to be truly guilty.

[naomi24]

Fred, I'm not asking that - and actually I'm beginning to think I must be speaking Chinese! Nevertheless, I'll try again. I'm asking why the faithful, without a murmur of outrage or disgust, accept that God purposefully inflicts death, pain, suffering, and torment upon human beings, when the same, if inflicted by man, is deemed utterly unacceptable and condemned instantly? Where God is concerned, their principles appear to fail them.

Venator, we're talking as though God exists because the question is directed at those who believe he exists. If you think it's a waste of breath, you are not obliged to contribute.

[sandyRoe]

If we could leave aside for a minute the question of whether God exists or not, and concentrate on why mankind suffers. The Earth is what it is. Tectonic plates shift, there are earthquakes, tsunamis, and volcanoes. Climatic change brings droughts and famine.
Life proliferates, and some of that life is bacteria and viruses that can harm us and cause great suffering.
Back to God. Surely we need him to bring a quantum of solace to us as we struggle through this vale of tears?

[chakka35]

naomi, birdie said it at the beginning: yours is an excellent question but stands as much chance of being answered by believers as I have of winning Gold in some future dodecathlon. sandyRoe's obtuse comments are an excellent example of that.

[sandyRoe]

Chakka, do you not mean 'obfuscation' or, maybe, 'obscure', where you've put 'obtuse'?

[modeller]

sandyroe# I can't think of another example of the God of Abraham directly interfering in our wicked affairs.#

Moses ---W

[modeller]

sandyroe #I can't think of another example of the God of Abraham directly interfering in our wicked affairs.#
Moses waters of the R

[modeller]

sandyroe Sorry PC playing up #I can't think of another example of the God of Abraham directly interfering in our wicked affairs.#
One more try : Just off the cuff. Moses--- water of the Red Sea engulfing the Egyptians
The plagues of Egypt. Destruction of Sodden and Gommorah , the walls of Jerico, and when the Israelites entered the promised land, where they with God's help destroyed the resident tribes, were these all not supposed to be God's work.

[sandyRoe]

Modeller, see my answer at 11;45 Saturday, which covers that very point.

[naomi24]

Birdie/Chakka - it's hard work, isn't it. :o/

[modeller]

sandy your answer at 11.47 does not cover what you said.
Which was :
#Apart from the inundation, which allowed mankind, in the form of Noah and his brood, to start again with a clean slate, I can't think of another example of the God of Abraham directly interfering in our wicked affairs.#

I gave you a number of examples of which God was claimed to have directly interfered with worldly affairs. It doesn't matter whether in reality there may be scientific reasons . The bible claims it was God. So how can you say :
#I can't think of another example of the God of Abraham directly interfering in our wicked affairs.# You either believe your bible or you don't. You can't just pick the bits that fit your belief.

[sandyRoe]

^ That's not what I wrote at 11:47

[modeller]

sandyroe Maybe you can answer a simple straight question :
Did God help Moses and his people escape from Egypt by sending the plagues and by drowning the Egyptians in the Red Sea ?

No wishy washy answers please just a simple yes or no. He either helped them or he didn't .