Are you hoping to become a ‘Death Cheater’?

[naomi24]

Reading posts from the religious here, I’ve concluded that the sole reason people cling to faith is because they fear death – and that faith creates unhealthy neurosis. Some have confessed that faced with the undeniable realities of religion, they have succumbed to actual physical malady, manifesting in uncontrollable shaking and weeping, which by any stretch of the imagination surely cannot be beneficial to either body or spirit; others are terrified to speak their mind for fear of ‘divine’ reprisal, and still more harbour what I consider to be a consistent and thoroughly unhealthy obsession with thoughts of sin, death, and eternal punishment. Through these pages, due to my absence of faith, I have recently been accused of possessing a ‘bleak outlook’, but is my outlook ‘bleak’ or is it simply ‘realistic’? I have strong moral principles, I care passionately about the welfare of my fellow man, I have a wonderfully loving family, a lovely home, many good friends, I am successful in my chosen profession, I’m not short of money, I’m healthy and happy – so bleakness has no place in my life. However, I fully accept that when my body is past its sell-by date, I will die. I don’t relish the thought of any pain or distress that might accompany that process, but when that is over and I’m dead, I won’t know anything about it, so in death itself, I have nothing to fear. Love is the most important thing in this world – and death is simply a reality of life. What’s wrong with that?

[Khandro]

naomi; The "Bleak outlook" directed recently at you was in response to your previous post on that thread and well you know it, but If you want to be seen as a martyr, so be it.

[Octavius]

Ladybirder, the corridors and walkways of the AB house are more than familiar with the theological opinions of original sin and limbo and the ensuiing debates.

I personally believe in little innocent babies.

[naomi24]

Of course I know where it came from Khandro. It's what prompted this question - but a martyr? I'm not sure whether that's just plain spiteful or just plain daft - but one thing I would say - don't assume that everyone thinks as you do - or holds silly grudges for arguments lost. I do neither. Nothing was further from my mind when I posted the question - but your response here says much about you.

[mibn2cweus]

Understanding that death is part of the bargain of having lived helps me to put the value of living in perspective. What I would regret most at my time of dying would be knowing that I intentionally cheated someone else from realising their full potential for achieving happiness in the one opportunity we are given to do so by having robbed them of the reality of life's value through delusion. Appreciation for and achieving what is possible within reality is what makes life worth living and ultimately . . . worth dying for.

[ladybirder]

Octavius I personally believe in little innocent babies
So do I. How could anybody not is what floors me.

[Octavius]

Maybe unwavering faith is the pinnacle of that particular persons life. Who are you to judge them or deny them?

[naomi24]

I don’t think anyone minds people having unwavering faith if they keep it to themselves. It’s when they insist on trying to silence opposing ideas, or on telling others they are born sinners, that they’re immoral, and that unless they believe the same way and live the same way (take your pick – there’s a variety to choose from) then they’re doomed for eternity, that the thinking listener tends to get a bit miffed.

[naomi24]

... and just think of the effect teaching a child it's a born sinner could have on that child. It's nothing short of wicked.

[Octavius]

Yes they insist on telling you one thing, and you insist on telling them another.

It's a merry-go-round.

[Khandro]

naomi; Reading through your 'question' again, it seems nothing more than a ludicrous and warped assessment of how you envisage people who follow some form of spiritual path, who "cling to faith because they fear death" and most hilariously; // they have succumbed to actual physical malady, manifesting in uncontrollable shaking and weeping// really! You then continue with a rather favourable bit of self-assessment, asserting what a thoroughly happy and good person you are (I'm very pleased for you).
You then finish with the question bit; //Love is the most important thing in this world – and death is simply a reality of life. What’s wrong with that?//
Answer; Nothing .

[emmie]

I fear death, always have and perhaps sadly always will. Nothing can change the fact of my death, but i don't use religion as something to cling to because of that fact.

[emmie]

i wished i believed in something, to go on to better things, but i don't, i reckon that you die, are gone, there is nothing after, nothing at all.

[chakka35]

sandyRoe - that was rather rude. And why do you think that quotations are acceptable substitutes for argument?

Khandro - your general unpleasantness is one of the many things that make me sigh "Thank God I'm an atheist." Sneering is no more a substitute for argument than quoting is.

[ladybirder]

Octavius, I wasn't "judging" or "denying" them, I was trying to understand. I remain unenlightened.

[Octavius]

Ladybirder, my post you quote was to mibn2cweus.

With your post above that I agree entirely.

[ladybirder]

Oh, I see, thank you Octavius.

[naomi24]

Khandro, ///and most hilariously; // they have succumbed to actual physical malady, manifesting in uncontrollable shaking and weeping// really!///

Oh yes indeed – really - so you shouldn't laugh. Mocking the afflicted isn't nice.

As for the rest of your post – and the one before – and several on other threads - you appear to have joined one or two others around here in sacrificing your self-respect at the altar of the God of Spite.

Chakka, thank you. Quite charming, aren’t they?

[Batexia]

Naomi:
Babies are innocent. When I refer to sin I don't mean that they go out and cheat, lie, steal etc. etc. Every single human is born a sinner inasmuch as they are not perfect. ( But as for teaching a child they are sinners, who does that? Certainly I don't. Leave that accusation at the feet of those who do, namely religious leaders, catholics in particular!)
You're a sinner, I am a sinner, and no doubt you haven't murdered anyone, or robbed a bank or any other such "sin", neither have I.
But that does not mean we are completely innocent of anything.
As previously stated, I am not afraid of dying - but I am afraid of the way I die. If it were a horrific one such as burning to death or being blown to bits, then yes I am fearful of that. But to die peacefully in bed, or from a disease I can cope with.
As to drastic steps should everything you value be lost, - I leave that to your imagination Naomi.

[naomi24]

Batexia, you’re mistaken. ‘Sin’ does not necessarily equate to crime. It equates to a transgression against your God’s will, and since I acknowledge neither him nor his rules, it follows that even if I’m a criminal (which I’m not) I am not a sinner – in fact, unless I’m discussing the subject, the word has long been stricken from my vocabulary. ‘Sin’ is an evil concept designed by evil men to provoke notions of guilt and shame in the susceptible – and it works. You are living proof of that.

Should everything I value be lost to me, it would of course, be devastating, but I still have no idea what drastic steps you’re talking about, so please don’t leave it to my imagination. Say what you mean.

[LazyGun]

@Naomi - There was me thinking this post was going to be a discussion on how to join Voldemort and the gang :)