Are you hoping to become a ‘Death Cheater’?

[naomi24]

Reading posts from the religious here, I’ve concluded that the sole reason people cling to faith is because they fear death – and that faith creates unhealthy neurosis. Some have confessed that faced with the undeniable realities of religion, they have succumbed to actual physical malady, manifesting in uncontrollable shaking and weeping, which by any stretch of the imagination surely cannot be beneficial to either body or spirit; others are terrified to speak their mind for fear of ‘divine’ reprisal, and still more harbour what I consider to be a consistent and thoroughly unhealthy obsession with thoughts of sin, death, and eternal punishment. Through these pages, due to my absence of faith, I have recently been accused of possessing a ‘bleak outlook’, but is my outlook ‘bleak’ or is it simply ‘realistic’? I have strong moral principles, I care passionately about the welfare of my fellow man, I have a wonderfully loving family, a lovely home, many good friends, I am successful in my chosen profession, I’m not short of money, I’m healthy and happy – so bleakness has no place in my life. However, I fully accept that when my body is past its sell-by date, I will die. I don’t relish the thought of any pain or distress that might accompany that process, but when that is over and I’m dead, I won’t know anything about it, so in death itself, I have nothing to fear. Love is the most important thing in this world – and death is simply a reality of life. What’s wrong with that?

[Old_Geezer]

Is it an exam question ?
Believe what you wish.

[FredPuli43]

Realistic. We are mammals. I see no reason to think that I , a mammal, on dying, will be different from my dogs. I take it that they have not been granted eternal life or that there has been a dog who died for their sins.

[sandyRoe]

For what shall it profit a woman, if she shall gain the whole world, and lose her soul?

[ummmm]

I agree, death 'was' the reason I clung onto faith.

Having faith did not teach me to be a good person. The people around me when I was growing up taught me that.

[woofgang]

Well said OG.

[jake-the-peg]

I disagree - well somewhat in that I'm sure there are many that fit your description.

However I think a lot of people get other things out of religion.

For many the big thing is community - it's something that has gone out of society a lot over the years but still exists in religious groups. They all meet each other once a week and the church represents a focus around which they focus - a bit of a clique or club if you will.

For others, slightly darker, its power or status. They occupy a position in this community and this position gives them status and power.

There are probably many more not least just habit and culture so I'd have to disagree that that is the sole reason

[beso]

They get community where an oligarchy lectures them with doctrine.

What they like is not having to think because their sense of right and wrong was all set out in ancient stories written down by some ignorant misogynists thousands of years ago.

It beggars belief that this anachronism endures.

[modeller]

jake #They all meet each other once a week and the church represents a focus around which they focus - a bit of a clique or club if you will. #

I have noticed religious people have a lot in common outside their faith,
they seem to have the same mind set. Atheists seem to be more diverse.

[Q-lyn]

We have had people ring at the door and say things like "You don't want to ever die do you?" and "only 150,000 souls go to heaven and sit with God". Even as a kid I thought they were totally bonkers. It always seemed perfectly right to me that we should be born, live and then stop, that is absolutely the proper way it is in nature. There may be more to it but I am quite happy with that.

Also, watching Brian Cox's last series on the past and ?future of the universe reinforced my view.

[ladybirder]

I have a dear friend who confirms jake's view. She was brought up as a RC and attends church maybe once a month. She loves the ritual, the hymns, the beautiful buildings, the camaraderie and the sense of belonging but over the years has ceased to believe. Her husband thinks she's a hypocrite and she agrees with him.

[whiskeryron]

// I have strong moral principles, I care passionately about the welfare of my fellow man, I have a wonderfully loving family, a lovely home, many good friends, I am successful in my chosen profession, I’m not short of money, I’m healthy and happy – so bleakness has no place in my life.//

naomi, I admire you, whether you like it or not I can see that you have very strong Christian morals & values. You are not one of the '' I'm alright Jack sod everybody else '' brigade. Good on 'ya gal.

[naomi24]

Jake, Ladybirder, of course you are right. There are those who go to church for the community it offers – but who don’t actually believe in the doctrine - I know several - but I’m talking specifically about those here who defend ‘faith’. A different thing entirely.

Ron, I don’t mind being tagged with Christian principles and values as I think they ought to be – so long as I’m not tagged with them as they often appear to be – so thank you. You’re very kind. :o)

[beso]

The religious fear death because their priests tell them they will be judged at their deaths. Those who fail to meet the standard will suffer eternally.

But one word from God and you get an eternal lovely life. All you have to do is pledge allegiance. Oh and by the way you are born bad because of something your ancestors did.

The believers comply out of fear which is exactly the response the church intended.

[modeller]

ron@ naomi What are Christain values and morals ?

According to our local vicar, he said the most important one was to forgive
no matter how great the crime, because the criminal would be punished in heaven.

[Batexia]

I have a faith and I believe in God. However,I don't believe simply because I am afraid of dying. In fact I don't fear death. What is death? Just the opposite of life.
You, Naomi, are one of the lucky ones. You say you have a wonderful loving family, a lovely home etc. etc.
But what if all that was to be taken away from you tomorrow?
Nobody knows what tomorrow will bring.
I too, have a loving family, home, etc. etc. but I thank God every day that I have these things, because, tomorrow they may be gone.
Will I take drastic steps or will I continue and suffer the consequences?
Will you?

[Batexia]

Beso.
You may be right on some points. The priests though, may have over stepped the mark in their thinking. It is not for them to forgive a man his sins. Yes, we are all born sinners but the priests can't judge us. No man can. That is for God to do and no one will know until the day of judgement.

[naomi24]

Batexia, //But what if all that was to be taken away from you tomorrow? ………Will I take drastic steps or will I continue and suffer the consequences?
Will you?//

I have no idea what drastic steps you’re talking about.

//Yes, we are all born sinners//

I wasn’t born a sinner and neither is any other baby. However, if you think you were, I’d very much like to know what you think you did that was so wrong.

[Octavius]

You can still have a realistic outlook that is bleak. Most realistic outlooks are. But as for your question, I live a fairly happy-go-lucky life, and no I don't fear death, its inevitable. Perhaps more the way in which I go, or the circumstances, but no, it doesn;t force me to cling to faith.

If you believe differently then its up to you.

[ladybirder]

[i] I wasn’t born a sinner and neither is any other baby. However, if you think you were, I’d very much like to know what you think you did that was so wrong. [i]

Yes I'd like to hear the answer to this as well. So there's no such thing as a little innocent baby, as we've heard said so many times?

I'll take the dog for a walk in the meantime.

[vulcan]

I was told by my unpaid and unasked religious advisor that a child inherits the sins of it's parents.