Do Churches Need To Be De- And Re- Consecrated When A New Franchise Moves In?

[AB Editor]

Morning,

I was wondering how a new franchise takes over a church. For example, what if there was a little Baptist church run by a Baptist priest/vicar and then, for some reason, the church was sold to the Catholic church.

Naturally they want to get one of their team in behind the pulpit, so they give Jonny Baptists his/her marching orders.

And then what?

Do they take over "fully furnished" in the sense of continuing the consecration "ticket", or do they de-consecrate and reapply their own "ticket"? Or do they just paint over the top with their version, so there's overlap?

I'd like to know the answer, but would also like any little stories you know about this kind of thing :)

Thanks in advance,

Ed

[woofgang]

Ed, its amazing (or maybe not) how much of Canon law (c of e at any rate) is based in historical legal, business and social practice and not religious belief!!

[AB Editor]

What happens if you do a sacrament in a unconsecrated church?

[Octavius]

I would suspect that as there is no 'removal' of God's blessing, then no interim god insurance coverage would be required. If Jewish squatters moved in to the space to use it as a place of worship in the gap, I guess there would probably be some facility prayer to let God know who it is talking to them from where, so that God can change livery and talk in the same language.

[tamborine]

RC churches have The Blessed Eucharist (wafer representing body & blood of Christ) held in the PYX or tabernacle. a lit candle in red glass denotes its presence. This has been blessed by the pope.

When a church is de-commissioned the BE would be removed. in army transit camps the BE travelled with the priest

[AB Editor]

"Ed, its amazing (or maybe not) how much of Canon law (c of e at any rate) is based in historical legal, business and social practice and not religious belief!!"

I was hoping for more of the madness you see in Orthadox Judaism (of which much is law and practical-requirement based - but the loopholes and other arrangements are all quite cleverly argued).

[AB Editor]

"so that God can change livery and talk in the same language."

Now we're getting somewhere.

What if it was used as a megaphone to a different god?

[JoolsTwo]

Holy Communion is a sacrament - That is takes place anywhere, in peoples homes, halls, on the battlefield anywhere infact.

[sandyRoe]

A relic of John Bosco, a Catholic priest, has been on a world tour to mark the bi-centenary of his birth. The place where it usually resides is no less holy because it's not there.

http://www.thejournal.ie/relic-of-don-bosco-stops-in-liverpool-ahead-of-ireland-tour-744529-Jan2013/

[AB Editor]

I like the way Army Chaplins work Tambo, seem very sensible and functional.

[Octavius]

"What if it was used as a megaphone to a different god?"

Blasphemy! There is only one.....

[AB Editor]

"A relic of John Bosco, a Catholic priest, has been on a world tour to mark the bi-centenary of his birth. The place where it usually resides is no less holy because it's not there."

Seems like a change of contract though?

Is "Holy" a binary thing then? Is St. Paul's not more Holy than my local church? Or am I getting confused with a "Holy = Sacred" fallacy?

[AB Editor]

"Blasphemy! There is only one....."

Yeah, but what if? Oh, hold on, that's the answer isn't it?

So these squatters are, say, worshippers of Odin and they're trying to get through to Valhalla. What happens to the blasphemers when Rev Green turns up the next day to "seal the deal"? I suppose it's just another case of "over-riteing" and kicking them out, don't you even need to wash the walls clean of their excited religious quaffing?

[AB Editor]

I'll be back a bit later, please feel free to tell me any stories that vaguely related to any of the subjects we've covered. It's all very interesting :)

[woofgang]

Jools, Communion which happens outside churches happens by permission of the Bishop concerned and the priest who administers it carries his own consecrated "kit"...in fact, lets go shopping!
http://www.churchsupplies.com/store/mass-kits.shtml

Useful stuff about altars
http://www.the-latinmass.com/id202.html

Portable communion or mass sets used to include a small piece of stone that ad been consecrated as an altar thus automatically consecrating anywhere it was used.

here's a relic cloth that can be used instead.
http://orbiscatholicussecundus.blogspot.co.uk/2010/01/when-there-is-no-altar-stone-mass-kit.html

[tamborine]

Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my Name, there am I in the midst of them

RCs dont need real estate for their worship.

[Octavius]

I wouldn't say that it is more holy than your church, but a cathedral is the seat of a bishop so will have more grandeur. Its a bit like head office and regional offices, where the managing director sits in the head office and has leather topped desks and comfy chairs.

Consecration would remove the demonised ramblings of the Odinites and a simple paintjob would remove anything profane or unchristian. If Odin popped by he wouldn't recognise the place and might need a forwarding address.

[woofgang]

Holiness, at least according to the Jewish Faith, is increased by the amount of prayer the place or the item has been involved in. (I wish Sharingam was here...)

There is an old Jewish story told by Lionel Blue that a Rabbi would ask to be buried in a coffin made from the dining table as it was prayed over every friday night and at many other times as well, so the coffin would be mega holy. Lionel Blue used to say that he thought that was doubly sad for the widow to lose her husband and her dining table at the same time.

[woofgang]

oh but Tambo, thats what the bible says, not what the church says....

[tamborine]

blame a congregation for building a church.

[woofgang]

originally, churches had practical uses as a community building as well as a place to talk to god....I guess they still do.