Do Churches Need To Be De- And Re- Consecrated When A New Franchise Moves In?

[AB Editor]

Morning,

I was wondering how a new franchise takes over a church. For example, what if there was a little Baptist church run by a Baptist priest/vicar and then, for some reason, the church was sold to the Catholic church.

Naturally they want to get one of their team in behind the pulpit, so they give Jonny Baptists his/her marching orders.

And then what?

Do they take over "fully furnished" in the sense of continuing the consecration "ticket", or do they de-consecrate and reapply their own "ticket"? Or do they just paint over the top with their version, so there's overlap?

I'd like to know the answer, but would also like any little stories you know about this kind of thing :)

Thanks in advance,

Ed

[tamborine]

congregations do outgrow buildings

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2332998/One-country-religions-telling-pictures-The-pews-churches-just-yards-overcrowded-mosque.html

[AB Editor]

"There is an old Jewish story told by Lionel Blue that a Rabbi would ask to be buried in a coffin made from the dining table as it was prayed over every friday night and at many other times as well, so the coffin would be mega holy. Lionel Blue used to say that he thought that was doubly sad for the widow to lose her husband and her dining table at the same time."

That's really good!

I think this kind of things is what I'm generally poking at when I ask about relics "powering" churches.

[AB Editor]

"Portable communion or mass sets used to include a small piece of stone that ad been consecrated as an altar thus automatically consecrating anywhere it was used."

So does leaving this on the dresser at home make the area consecrated?

[woofgang]

well tibetans spin prayer wheel and use flags. Many faiths use a lit candle to symbolise the prayer continuing when the supplicant has left the church. A rosary which has seen much use or been the property of an especially holy person may be seen as extra special because of this but there is no rule about it.

Going away from consecration and deconsecration, there is the the process of keeping vigil either to pray for many people at their request or to pray for a particular person or outcome. Individuals will have a rota for spending time in prayer or religious contemplation so that one or more people are awake and praying around the clock. This is considered a particularly powerful way to pray, rather like running a prayer dynamo.

[AB Editor]

"Originally, churches had practical uses as a community building as well as a place to talk to god....I guess they still do."

A bit like a pub (with a nosey landlord!)

[woofgang]

In terms of could a communion service be held there? then yes.
In terms of should the item and its storage container be treated with due reverence at all times? then yes, no plonking your hairbrush or aftershave on it or on the box that contains it.
Portable altars and the cloths which have a relic sewn into the corner can be descrated so badly (use your imagination) that reconsecration would be out of the question and the only recourse would be to reverently dispose of the item.

[woofgang]

indeed ed, in many villages, the pub and the church were very closely connected.

[tamborine]

only if [i]Matthew 18:20[i] applies, Ed

[woofgang]

Is that "Wine that maketh glad the heart of man"?

[AB Editor]

"This is considered a particularly powerful way to pray, rather like running a prayer dynamo."

I like this sort of thing - turning theological concept into practical engineered solution.

[woofgang]

nope, its the two or three one... I had my mind in the pub!

[AB Editor]

How do you dispose of an irreparable holy item?

[tamborine]

its a wafer bikkie to RCs & priest would consume it.

[woofgang]

then you will love the 4th verse here.
There is also a belief that any suffering or unpleasantness undertaken cheerfully and willingly can be offered up as prayer. I knew a lady once who had the most awful arthritis in the days when joint replacements weren't done and pain relief was way less effective. She told me once that she offered up her pain as prayers for sick children.
Teach me, my God and King,
in all things thee to see,
and what I do in anything
to do it as for thee.

A man that looks on glass,
on it may stay his eye;
or if he pleaseth, through it pass,
and then the heaven espy.

All may of thee partake;
nothing can be so mean,
which with this tincture, "for thy sake,"
will not grow bright and clean.

A servant with this clause
makes drudgery divine:
who sweeps a room, as for thy laws,
makes that and the action fine.

This is the famous stone
that turneth all to gold;
for that which God doth touch and own
cannot for less be told.

[cupid04]

you might be able to make something else out of it!

[AB Editor]

"There is also a belief that any suffering or unpleasantness undertaken cheerfully and willingly can be offered up as prayer. I knew a lady once who had the most awful arthritis in the days when joint replacements weren't done and pain relief was way less effective. She told me once that she offered up her pain as prayers for sick children."

Excellent, although it makes me a little sad.

Where is the poesy from?

[woofgang]

Ab Editor, you return it to nature. as Tambo has said, consecrated wine and bread is either consumed reverently or reserved in a secure area consecrated to that use. Vestments may be burned or laid in reverent storage if they are worth preserving, or reused to create new vestments. metal objects can be melted down. Stone should be buried in consecrated ground, probably having first being broken to prevent re use. Even the water blessed for the cleaning of communion vessels should properly be poured onto the earth and not poured down the drain.If communion bread is cut from a real loaf which still does happen in some churches, then any crumbs caused from the cutting or crusts which are removed are either consumed reverently by the person doing the preparation, or may be given in charity, so put out to feed wild animals.

[AB Editor]

"You might be able to make something else out of it!"

Yes, but what?

What if you made an altar stone out of something fragile, when it breaks is it less holy/sacred?

[AB Editor]

Ah, burial for a stone.

[tamborine]

Ed, as per Job ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Job_%28biblical_figure%29