Why Go To Heaven ?

[modeller]

I heard a discussion by a group of theists who were saying why they wanted to go to heaven . It was a bit weird because no one said anything positive.
1. There would be nothing to do because there would be no need to , nothing to aim for, no desire, no ambition, no winners or losers, no one would be dim or bright or talented, everybody equal, no arguements , nothing to talk about , not even the weather or ones health. Nothing but eternal limbo !

As one man jokingly said, it was lust and greed that had driven him to achieve a highly successful life. He said he started chasing the girls when he was 7 and hasn't stopped since.

2. They more or less ended up with a consensus that the only reason for going to heaven was it's better than the alternative.

Surely theists must have another reason for wanting to go ! What do you think ?

[naomi24]

Modeller, you often say you’ve spoken to a group of theists. May I ask, are these assorted groups, or if you are speaking to just one group every time, what creed does it adhere to?

[guilliebrougues]

I did not think, we had a choice, we have to go where we are sent.

[Khandro]

Good question naomi. modeller, go find yourself a better group!

[modeller]

I would say that was false logic. That's like saying because I think of something that makes it possible. I am only able to enjoy :
//Music, hope, courage, dreams, poetry, happiness etc..... it's a long list//
because my atoms make it possible. My emotions only exist as long as I do.
I think I know where you are coming from with Buddhism but I think that needs a separate thread.

[modeller]

Hi Naomi I thought you might be on holiday. You have been rather quiet.

It's several different groups . One is a Free Chuch Mens group, another is a group of 5 churches, and another one is a secular group but atheists are in the minority. One is a Coffee group ,no creeds but mainly non believers.
One is a secular mens' club. They are all different but the theist ones are best from the point of view of refreshments, eg. beer and burgers.

There are very few secular mens' clubs (during the day ) in my area. Plenty for women .
Another problem most clubs meet up in the evening 8pm so that limits the choice. I only joined the Churchy groups after being asked to challenge their views and bring their talks alive. I never join in any prayers they throw in .

I should add these groups do have a variety of speakers on a range of subjects and the members of these groups are nice people to socialise with.
I have to admit I do find their unworldly naivety difficult to cope with at times.

I am often asked to join various bible based courses but I decline them
after reading the syllabus.

I think that covers your question .

[Khandro]

modeller; I'm saying there is existence outside of the atomic you believe to be all-encompassing, when electronic broadcasting began first with radio then with television, these sounds and images were transmitted by radio waves which are still continuing out into the universe, if you could travel fast enough you could overtake them and listen to 'The Archers' circa 1951. :-)

[modeller]

Khandro If you want to discuss particle physics so be it but sorry that's no arguement . You know the term Atom relates to the atoms and all the particles they contain and their characteristics. If there were no atoms there would be no radio , television, radiation etc.

If I was you I would try to explain some peoples supernatural abilities here on earth , which might lend some weight to your other ideas. However that's digressing and a separate subject.

[joko]

i thought in heaven, everyone got a big mansion, and all their friends and family were there, and they had a pool, and a car, and they were beautiful, healthy and young, and can have anything they want...?

*add any other wishy washy, vague, meaningless stuff that some people think heaven is, to make it sound good

[joko]

so, the reward (bribe) for believing in god, praying, going to church etc etc, is, quite conveniently, EXACTLY what YOU want...

what a incentive.

genius.

[ludwig]

// modeller; //My atoms are staying as stardust.// There are many things which do not consist of atoms alone; Music, hope, courage, dreams, poetry, happiness etc..... it's a long list. //

All those things were invented by humans. Do you know of anything that doesn't consist of atoms that wasn't invented by humans?

[Khandro]

ludwig; Yes many things; The wind, sound waves, currents, electricity, to name but a few.

[modeller]

//Do you know of anything that doesn't consist of atoms ? //

khandro // Yes many things; The wind, sound waves, currents, electricity, to name but a few. //

What are you talking about , they all involve atoms ! Or have I misread something ? That's the problem when answering a question that's answering a question that's ...........

[Khandro]

^^ why did you miss out the bit of ludwig's question "invented by humans"?

[naomi24]

modeller, thank you for responding.

[jomifl]

/ There are many things which do not consist of atoms alone; Music, hope, courage, dreams, poetry, happiness etc..../

Khandro, You might just as well say that writing exists without some medium to suport it. You may try to dress up a facile argument as something profound and enigmatic but you have to admit that an argument can't exist without support either.

[Khandro]

jomifl; I thought as a knowledgeable scientist (?) an explanation would not be required, however, I quote The Astronomer Royal, Martin Rees, speaking from the Master's Lodge of Trinity College Cambridge; "... there could be a three -dimensional universe just a millimetre away from us. But if that millimetre was measured in a fourth spatial dimension we would be completely unaware of it."
'There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.'
Hamlet (1.5.166-7), Hamlet to Horatio

[vetuste_ennemi]

"There are more things in philosophy than are dreamt of in heaven and earth". M. R. James.

[Khandro]

Montague! - as originator (and terminator) of antiquarian ghost stories it comes as little surprise that you are a fan of his :-) but I think I'll stick with The Bard.

[modeller]

//Do you know of anything that doesn't consist of atoms that wasn't invented by humans? //

Your answer khandro ##Yes many things; The wind, sound waves, currents, electricity, to name but a few. ##

You are wrong if you say those things do not involve atoms !

Try to improve your Karma by not giving your usual disingenuous answer.
Failure to answer at all ,will you must admit not enhance your Karma.

You surely must be aware that any respect we may have for Buddhism is affected by your posts.

[vetuste_ennemi]

Fan, eh? To whom it may concern:
"Why, look you now, how unworthy a thing you make of me! You would play upon me, you would seem to know my stops, you would pluck out the heart of my mystery, you would sound me from my lowest note to the top of my compass, and there is much music, excellent voice, in this little organ, yet cannot you make it speak. 'Sblood, do you think I am easier to be played on than a pipe? Call me what instrument you will, though you can fret me, you cannot play upon me.”