"where's The Harm?"

[joko]

people often say this regarding religion, in the spirit of 'live and let live' - as though its all a lovely harmless fuzzy warm thing, and they cannot fathom whats wrong with it.

are some people really that oblivious to all the other stuff that happens either directly or indirectly because of religion? - any and all religions

i always find that such a bizarre and pointless argument - as though people will just shrug and say, "aw yeah, suppose you're right, lets leave it at that eh?"

it would be a great argument if the religious could let everyone else live and let live ... but they whole problem with religion is - they can't and won't and don't let anyone else 'live and let live'...

[Buenchico]

>>>a great deal of comfort can also be derived from religion

. . . and false hope, possibly?

[jennycoo]

'but they whole problem with religion is -' complete nonsense !

[craft1948]

I see this is once again going to descend into a thread where theists are obviously deluded...............nothing changes on here.

[FredPuli43]

Could be that people say "Where's the harm? " to you, joko, because they don't want an argument or a discussion in which you condemn religion for many of the world's present and past ills.

I am an atheist too, and I'd probably be saying it to you or anyone else who argued that way. Live and let live!

[jno]

well, name some of these problems, joko; how else can your question be answered?

[joko]

JTH - i agree totally - i am not having a go at good people who are comforted by god etc in times of need etc - i do understand there is a good side of course, but i don't understand how anyone can truly think there is no harm in it - as a whole concept

obviously the little old lady who does the flowers on a sunday and bakes cakes to raise money for the church roof is a lovely and harmless cliche - but that is not all religion is.

my question is, is this phrase simply a denial of the reality? or genuine ignorance of what is happening around the world?

[craft1948]

I don't think you can blame religion itself for causing harm, although the same may not be true of certain, but not all, religious organisations.

[joko]

it is mostly on here that it is said - and not to me.
i rarely talk about religion away from here.

jno - it is irrelevant - the question is not about the actual types of harm - please re-read the posts

im hoping it wont craft - that is not the purpose of this post - i do not wish to discuss the actual incidents and types of harm, or why people believe or disbelieve - we all know the harm exists, the evidence is there - its about why many seem to deny it - both theists and atheists.

[joko]

craft - yes physically it is people that do the harm - but it stems from religious texts and orders etc

people seem to be not getting the question - please re-read

[jackthehat]

I agree, craft...........it can get a bit "ya-boo-sucks" with some discussions on religion. I accept that your faith is very important and personal to you.

My grand-aunt, who died earlier this year (aged 94) had a fabulous relationship with her Lord.......and loved everyone, equally, as she believed that she was asked to do. Her faith/belief saw her through some pretty bad times, and I am grateful that she had that to support her.

I only have a problem when the 'proscriptions' of any given belief spread out into a greater society that has not willingly embraced them.

[craft1948]

Thank you Jack, I also appreciate that atheists do not share my beliefs, and I have no problem with that either.
What I do object to is being labelled, deluded, idiotic or some other choice description just because I do not share their beliefs.

[society]

Jack, you'll be in big trouble for saying Boo sucks :)

[Buenchico]

>>>I don't think you can blame religion itself for causing harm, although the same may not be true of certain, but not all, religious organisations

Er, yes and no!

Many people, for example, are happy to blame Islam for women being denied education when, in fact, it's only certain parts of that faith group that object to girls being formally educated. (For example, 60% of university students in Iran are women, which is hardly proof that Islam universally prohibits their education!)

However some religious texts (which are widely adhered to across all branches of that particular religion) continue to result in the oppression of certain sections of society. In particular, the rights of homosexuals are oppressed in many countries, from Russia to The Gambia.

[joko]

no-one has said that craft.


i have asked a question that is not 'about' the harm religion does, and it is not about whether you believe or disbelieve.

i dont think even the most devout can deny that atrocities have happened all over the world in the name of religion - so that is not in question - it is not the point.

it is a simple question.

[craft1948]

So do these people not belong to organised religions Chris?

I started out trying the C of E for a time, and then went on to try the Salvation Army. I loved the SA for the many good things they actively promoted but wasn't comfortable with other parts of their practices so left after a few years.
I haven't belonged to any church for a considerable time now, and rarely feel the need to attend a service of any kind, although the local vicar is a decent bloke who is always good for a non-judgemental chat.

[craft1948]

Anyway, good night chaps x

[Buenchico]

My point, Craft, is that many (most?) Christians oppose homosexuality because of what is written in the Bible, rather than because of any particular edicts laid down by any organised branch of Christianity,

[mikey4444]

The central problem with all religions is that if you believe in any one of them, everybody else who doesn't, must therefore be wrong. Religion can't work in any other way, thus we have world-wide intolerance and conflict between different peoples. Its particularly bad within closely-related religions, like the different varieties of the Muslim and Christian faith.

Is it any wonder that millions of people are killed and injured each year in inter-faith disagreements, all over the world. Atheists may disagree about lots of things but their branch of Atheism is rarely a factor.

Never a day goes by when I am not glad that, despite being brought up as a child as a Catholic, I am now an atheist. I'm not smug, just glad.

[naomi24]

The religious and their apologists often say ‘live and let live’, but that in effect equates to disregarding the unsavoury aspects of religion that don’t affect them personally. Where's the harm? The church’s stance on contraception creates untold misery, disease, and poverty worldwide – but damn those terrible atheists for caring about it! As for religion causing wars, the conflict in the Middle East has continued for centuries and is now having a devastating impact upon the rest of the world – and that is a direct result of religion. “Love one another”? I see little of that from religion here. More a case of “I’m alright Jack”!

[RATTER15]

//But a great deal of comfort can also be derived from religion.//

I agree, if you believe in this nonsense, however, those that don't have a faith get on equally well and probably better living in a real world without having a false crutch to fall back on.