Are We All Muslims By Default

[jomifl]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10814674/Halal-meat-row-faith-leaders-call-for-clear-food-labelling.html
Has PC gone too far?
Is there an alternative?

[Brenden]

I know I harp on about Islam but I have stressed that it has insidiously taken over all parts of the British way of life and will eventually take over the country (which, whatever you say, is their sole aim )- if we do not control it now.

[naomi24]

According to Islam, yes we are all Muslims by default, as were Abraham, Moses, et al – although just like us they weren’t aware of it either. ;o)

// “We do need a more grown-up approach to this issue,” he [the Rt Rev Nick Baines] said.//

Oh the irony! Making a fuss over the way an animal is slaughtered simply for religious reasons certainly does call for a more grown-up approach.

[237SJ]

I guess the alternative is for shoppers to vote with their feet. I don`t usually eat red meat but I found it really difficult to find British lamb at easter which is ridiculous because we produce fantastic lamb in this country.. All of the lamb in the main supermarkets was from New Zealand which is halal. If you buy it in M&S, Tesco, Morrisons or Co-op it`s not marked as such either.

[boxtops]

Do most people really mind? Some of us may, but I reckon that the average shopper doesn't give a thought to the way the food gets to the supermarket orr butcher. We've been eating halal lamb and chicken for years - how many of us honestly know that what we eat is killed in a way we'd approve of?

[boxtops]

....and in answer to the OP, if you were a Muslim then yes, I understand the belief of that faith is that we ARE all born Muslims - it's only by being baptised etc into another faith that people move into other religions. This is what my Muslim friends certainly believe.

[joggerjayne]

I would have thought that, by default, we are all atheist.

A child is born with no religion, no language, etc.

Wherever you put them, that is what they become.

If you take the child of Turkish Muslim parents the day he is born, and give him to an Italian family, he grows up as an Italian speaking Catholic.

[ummmm]

I don't think about it, Boxy.

[redman41]

Jogger Jayne is spot on with her assessment.
Grew up a Christian but when I was old enough to think for myself I became an Atheist

[tamborine]

Average chkn house holds 5k birds. How labour intensive is it to catch a bird & slit its throat? Farms gas them, 2 men can collect & prepare for automatic cleaning & packing. Wholesale buyers supply their customers at will.

[boxtops]

Nor do I, ummm.

Halal lamb actually takes very much sweeter than non, and the chicken at our local butcher is all halal, his customers all prefer the taste so that's all he buys in. Not to please the local Muslim population at all, but to please everyone who cooks and eats it.

[lankeela]

Only Morrisons label their Halal meat. The other big supermarkets all supply it unlabelled!

[hc4361]

I will not knowingly eat Halal meat. The law is quite clear about this - animals must be slaughtered to a certain standard in the UK which excludes the Halal and Kosher methods. There are exceptions in place that allow Halal and Kosher slaughtering where it is to provide Muslims and Jews with meat that is acceptable to them. This meat is NOT intended for the general population and it is very wrong that it is becoming prevalent in retailers and restaurants.

There lies the problem. Both Muslims and Jews will only eat a small percentage of the meat from an animal - the rest ends up in the main supply but is not labelled Halal or Kosher.

Nearly ALL New Zealand lamb is killed to Halal standards but it isn't labelled as such in our supermarkets, unless it is on the Halal shelves.

If you object to eating Halal or Kosher meat always ask before you buy it. If the seller isn't certain, don't buy it. Email the supermarkets and ask them what unlabelled Halal and Kosher meat they sell and how you can avoid buying it.

I have no objection to people buying Halal or Kosher if that is what they choose to buy. I do object very strongly to unknowingly buying this meat and the lack of labelling.
I do eat in curry houses but I don't eat meat in them - I eat vegetarian and fish meals. My Muslim friends also avoid giving me meat dishes when I eat at their homes. There is no issue with that - I know the meat served will be Halal and can avoid it.

I have been trying for years to get MPs interested in this, without much success.

[hc4361]

Lankeela, not all the Halal meat in Morrisons is labelled - the New Zealand lamb is not labelled as such although all of it is.
Some NZ lamb in that store is labelled Halal but the majority of it isn't.

[naomi24]

//Do most people really mind?//

I have no idea – but they should on principle if nothing else. If most of our meat is killed to suit Muslims, it means that the religious beliefs of 5% of the population are being imposed upon the rest of us regardless of our preferences.

[tamborine]

NZ lamb is sweeter coz theyre slaughtered younger & due to their feed. Theyre all humanely killed (electric) & buyers sell at will.

Its illegal to slaughter out of abattoirs because of blood seepage into terrafirma & water.

[boxtops]

My argument is that much of the population may have no preference, though, naomi - they just want meat. I rarely see shoppers inspecting the labels in the shops (and that's not just meat items), what they want just goes in the trolley.

[naomi24]

Hardly the point Boxy.

[hc4361]

This is the email I had from Waitrose

Our priority when sourcing all our meat is to achieve the very highest standards of animal welfare and, to ensure this, we work closely with the Humane Slaughter Association (HSA). We also make sure that everything we do is in line with the recommendations of Compassion in World Farming and the RSPCA.

Our lamb is electrically stunned before slaughter, meaning that animals are unconscious and are not subjected to pain.

UK law currently permits halal slaughter both with stunning and without however, to maintain Red Tractor assurance scheme standards, signified by a logo on the label, (which all Waitrose Meat & Poultry achieves) all animals must be pre-stunned. New Zealand law also requires all animals to be pre-stunned at slaughter.

To give our customers a choice our Duchy Originals from Waitrose lamb and the English, West Country & Dorset lamb sold on our service counters are not slaughtered with a halal blessing. All other Waitrose meat and poultry is non-halal.

However, we will continue to allow the halal blessing for other lamb (with the exception of the aforementioned Duchy Originals from Waitrose and the English, West Country & Dorset lamb sold on our service counters) so that abattoirs can sell the parts of the carcass that we don't use to other markets. This minimises food waste, keeps prices down for our customers and helps our farmers to be competitive.

As far as labelling is concerned, there is currently no UK labelling scheme for halal and we believe this is a matter where Government should lead. This is because, in order to give consumers clarity, there would need to be a consistent approach to cover not only supermarkets but butchers and other retailers, restaurants, cafes and the food production and catering industry as a whole.

For example, currently UK regulation allows the term halal to be used to meat that has been pre-stunned before slaughter and to that which has not. Labelling requirements would need to take this into consideration.

We will be happy to discuss these issues with Government and, of course, to comply fully with industry labelling requirements that may be developed.


Regards,

Chris Zawadzki

Waitrose Customer Sales and Support.

[237SJ]

There was a lot of publicity regarding egg and chicken production in this country some years ago. That resulted in clear labelling about free range/barn reared etc. I would not buy eggs or chicken that is battery produced and the labelling allows me to make that decision. The same should apply to meat production/slaughter and then people can make informed decisions about what to buy. It`s that simple really.

[whirlyhurly]

Spot on Brenden, I liken Islam and its culture to an "oil slick" slowly spreading, and we are all too complacent.