Human Rights And Wrongs.

[jomifl]

http://www.ryot.org/photos-these-women-were-doused-in-acid-for-turning-down-marriage-proposals/559641

[ladybirder]

Iran seems to take these attacks seriously. I wonder if it being a capital offence there has increased the number of people reporting such crimes or even might have lead to a reduction of such instances due to the fact that it could be 'back at you' if you're caught.

[jomifl]

I think Ludwig has it right, the appalling mediaeval practices carried out in some countries have their origins in the kind of society that gave rise to Islam. Even though islam may not explicitly condone or even demand such practises, because they have existed in parallel for so long people from these societies cannot separate them intellectually. There are many christians who sincerely believe that the practices of the church are based on biblical edicts whereas of course they are all just a self serving invention, except for perhaps baptism.

[naomi24]

Pixie, you say that Islam isn't the cause and that the perpetrators are psychopaths who would be psychopaths with or without religion, but since these crimes aren't nearly so prevalent within any other society doesn't it strike you as odd that Islam appears to harbour rather more than its fair share of psychopaths? Rationally, that must raise questions.

[sandyRoe]

The spotlight is on the Islamic world at the moment. But I mentioned earlier in this thread the vile practise of kitchen fires which conveniently settle domestic disputes in some Indian families.

[kvalidir]

And there was great resistance to ending the practice of widow burning in India too Sandy, again not a Muslim habit.

[TWR]

To say these scum that inflict this onto another human being are human, they should have acid thrown over their b@lls, uncivilised basds.

[pixie373]

Naomi, yes, but that doesn't make it a cause. Someone of that character may be more attracted to Islam for whatever reason. That does not imply Islam is at fault. Statistics can be misleading, as they can't differentiate between cause and effect.

[naomi24]

Pixie, Muslims who do things like this aren't 'attracted' to Islam - they're not converts and they don't make choices. They're born into the most backward of Islamic society, and they know nothing else. Whilst people who do have a voice continue to deny the facts, atrocities like this, child marriage, FGM, and forced exclusion will continue - and hence, the women who are helplessly subjected to the will of these barbarians will never enjoy the freedoms that you and I take for granted. We in the west do have a voice and it's high time we stopped pussyfooting around religious sensibilities and used it!

[mibn2cweus]

It never ceases to amaze me the efforts made by apologists to foist the blame due the guilty upon those whose prefer to focus their concerns with defending and protecting the innocent victims of unjustified and irreconcilable beliefs.

[pixie373]

We do have a voice- but we need to stop excusing them by blaming religion for behaviour. It's attitudes that need to change.

[pixie373]

Can't see any apologists, mibs? We are only discussing the methods needed to change things- nobody is excusing anything.

[mibn2cweus]

Beliefs dictate behaviours and arbitrary beliefs dictate arbitrary behaviours. Unreason is the cause of the unreasonable actions that invariably and inevitably ensue. Reality is the final arbiter of right and wrong in the consequences that follow from evading and ignoring the truth of what ultimately will not be denied.

[pixie373]

No. Behaviours dictate beliefs. That's the whole point.

[Khandro]

mibn2; Your post seems to be pure obscurantism.
pixie is right, only through virtuous acts can we become virtuous.

[naomi24]

Pixie, Behaviour dictates belief? Then I'll you ask again why Islam in particular appears to harbour so many more than any other religion of the psychopaths you were talking about? People behave according to their belief - not the other way around. 3000 died on 9/11 because a bunch a fanatical religious lunatics believed what the Koran told them - that Allah wanted them to kill the enemy of Islam - and in doing so they would die in glory. Likewise, two Christians ended up in court for denying gays a room at their B&B because the bible tells them that homosexuality is an abomination. All of those people acted in the way they did because of what they believed.

Khandro, that airy fairy philosophical pondering does nothing to address the issue. Mibs is right. Apologists - and that's what I'm seeing here - care more for defending the cancer that is religion, and by extension the hateful men who impose - and bend - the rules, than for the plight of its victims. Sickening.

[RATTER15]

You can dress it up with fancy words, quotes and sayings as much as you like, but at the end of the day the Islamic countries are far more barbaric than any other and they carry out these disgusting deeds because their Koran permits and even encourages such atrocities toward Women. Disgusting faith and barbaric faith!!!!!

[kvalidir]

It's really got to the point where it's pointless to try to debate rationally on this subject, for want of being called an apologist if one holds views more balanced than a couple of posters. I think certain people would benefit from learning to debate without insulting other users and their opinions. An 'apologist' is something I am certainly not, the rational world goes to hell when people start bandying emotive, ill thought out nonsense like that. How would you feel, if I called you a xenophobe, racist or implied that you were so biased that it was a personality flaw so massive as to be threat to the safety of the rest of us? It's not on in a rational debate, so I would like to politely ask you to refrain from use of words such as 'apologist' or actually show me anywhere on this thread that ANYONE has actually been an apologist for these disgraceful crimes.

[naomi24]

kvalidir, if you want to take part in this discussion, you need to try to comprehend what's being said here. You can ask me what you like, but don't expect to get what you want.

[kvalidir]

More of the same- you're predictable if nothing else.
If you call someone an apologist then you ought at least to have the common good manners when asked to point out exactly where that person has been an apologist. You don't answer because you can't as no-one has behaved in that way on this thread. It's really shabby, and only likely to get shabbier if past performances are anything to go by.

[Svejk]

///, but are you saying I am wrong to say; "no religion or religious leader would advocate such action///

khandro, is a 'fatwa' not, sometimes, an exhortation to acts of violence?