Is God Responsible – Or Isn’T He?

[naomi24]

When people, especially the young, fall foul of unavoidable diseases and die, the religious often justify the loss by saying “It’s God’s will”, and yet when asked why they think a loving God would have willed that disease on the victim, they say “It’s not God’s fault”. How does that work?

[Old_Geezer]

I think they are consoling themselves to think God willed it. Assuming a God exists then do we have evidence that they interact with this place that often ? God would have created a universe where species could exist and souls use them to spend part of their existence. Is there any blame to be placed when it is time for the body to die ? The released souls are expected to continue existence elsewhere anyway.

[naomi24]

But how can God will it and not be held responsible?

[Old_Geezer]

A God would not have willed it. It would be inevitable as a result of the working system it created, that needs no continuous adjustment.

Responsibility tends to imply blame; there is no blame related to reaching the leaving point.

[johnny37]

Much as I sympathise with anyone who dies for any reasons, disease, famine, even wars, it is survival/evolution laws in operation. Only one sentence I know but the rule ensures survival of any species. If God has got anything to do with it it is that he gives man the tools to overcome disease/war, etc. BTW I am an atheist. Fortunately I have never had to fight. I have a few afflictions, for which I take medication, I would have died from in the past.

[naomi24]

//A God would not have willed it.//

The religious say he does.

[jomifl]

So johnny37, are you implying that your medication is more powerful than god :o)

[Zabadak]

//A God would not have willed it.//

/The religious say he does./

What, all of them? Are you sure?

[Old_Geezer]

I'm unsure they all say so. Save perhaps in a general way, that it created a system where it would happen. But to rail against that, what is the alternative, to stay here perfectly healthy forever getting more & more bored ?

Ah, johnny's medication would have been allowed by God to be discovered / created by man. I don't think one can claim it is more powerful, merely a healing transport mechanism.

[Hypognosis]

'Fault' implies 'mistake' and G doesn't make mistakes, ergo: if s/he wills it then it is not his/her 'fault', it was intentional, meant to happen. Ergo his/her responsibility.

[naomi24]

Zabadak, //What, all of them? Are you sure? //

I've not spoken to all of them - but the ones I have spoken to seem to think that's right.

Hypognosis, //'Fault' implies 'mistake' and G doesn't make mistakes//

He does. The bible tells us he does - so it must be true. ;o)

[KARL]

Broadly speaking, each and every one of us is free to let our imagination go where it wants. Occasionally (or most of the time and everywhere in between, depending on the individual) we might pick up ideas from others, be attracted to them and (for comfort/peace of mind) adopt them as unshakable truth. At the back of that is our desire to interact with others and be accepted (or impress them with our ideas), one of our strongest urges. The answer to the OP question depends almost entirely on these things - there is no known absolute answer, just lots of varying ones depending on how they fit into individual predispositions (or nagging doubts/incredulity).

[atalanta]

Just look on a well-known online bookseller's website for "Theodicy". This is the "science" of explaining how God can permit evil and suffering. Theologians have been trying to justify this for centuries, and still haven't succeeded, but one of these books ( or a hundred of them ) might take your question further.

[naomi24]

Atalanta, this isn’t about the reasons God permits evil and suffering – that's a different area entirely. This is about God allegedly purposefully willing death upon a human being and being absolved, by the faithful, of all responsibility for doing so.

[maggiebee]

We all die naomi at some time or another. I have no idea why there are so many foul diseases in this world, but I'm sure they weren't willed by God. I believe we all have a pre-ordained life span - some short and some long. It's the only way I can come to terms with my daughter dying when she was 5 and my father living til he was 95.

[agchristie]

If is to be held to be God's will and nobody elses then surely they are saying that there is no other possible force that can prevent death.Who else can be responsible? An interesting question that risks hypocritical responses from those who believe what they want to believe...

[naomi24]

Maggie, I remember that this is a particularly sad time of year for you, but I can’t see how a lifespan can be pre-ordained and yet death not be God’s responsibility.

For you with love.

[keyplus90]

Because you would not understand.

[mikey4444]

Nothing can be down to "Gods will" as he, or she doesn't exist naomi, as I am sure you are more than aware of ! Its another of the stupid, weasel word phrases that some people use that annoy me. But not as much as "God moves in mysterious ways"

I have a ex-work associate that I no longer have any contact with. She is one of those new "born-again" Christians...you know the sort...the ones that say that the Planet Earth is only 6000 years old, and our ancestors chased dinosaurs for their dinner. She had been pestering me for nearly a year to come to one of her prayer meetings. I started out by being polite but had to get sterner as she would listen, JWs are easy to get rid compared to her !

She annoyed me one too many times by siding with the Israelis during the last but one Gaza-Israel flare-up. Her argument is that Israel is the Land of God and belongs to the Righteous, whoever the *** they are, and the Muslims have no place there. When I asked her what she thought of all the innocent babies and children that were being killed on both sides but mainly in Gaza, she brought out the "God moves in mysterious ways" bulsh1t

These people need ridiculing then ignoring. They will eventually go away.

[Zacs-Master]

Naomi likes the thrill of the chase tho Mikey and is constantly trying to back the Godly into a corner. Unfortunately the Bible gives them a get-out-of-jail-free card for each and every scenario.

[mikey4444]

Oh I enjoy baiting the daft and irrational as well Zacs, but it gets tiring in the end.

My avatar famously once said "The Tories are like rats you know...you think you have got rid of them but they always come back" I would apply that to organised and not-so organised religions of the world...they just keep appearing, in ever more wonderful forms !

The following isn't a religion in the true sense of the word but it still goes against logic and rational in the same way ::::

http://theflatearthsociety.org/cms/

This isn't a wind-up...they really believe this nonsense !