Freedom To Choose

[nailit]

Why do religious people think that we have a CHOICE in what we believe or dont believe?
I had an interesting conversation this morning with a couple of door knocking JW's. Unlike most people I actually enjoy a bit of banter with them when they come knocking, actually makes me feel good that I'm relatively sane when they've gone.
The conversation went along the lines that we have a choice to accept (their version of ) God. I pointed out that belief is not a choice, I cant make myself believe something that I find patently absurd. My present beliefs (religious, political or otherwise) are based on my level of understanding to date aquirred through knowledge and experience. They then talked about the need for repentance when I pointed out that that in itself is a belief...and one that I dont share as I dont see myself as a sinner in need of forgiveness from some deity. They seemed a bit aghast at that. I pointed out that I was quiet aware of my shortcomings but that wasnt the same thing as sin, which is an alien concept to me.
What I didnt point out to them was that I went through a religious period in my teenage years but eventually had to give it up as I valued truth over doctrine...I couldnt 'make' myself believe what I was been taught anymore than I could still believe in Santa.

I just wondered if any religious ABers (goodlife, keyplus etc) can grasp the concept that non believers are not non believers by choice but by understanding, experience and knowledge?
Thanks

[jomifl]

Khandro, that is a bit of an assumption, I have experienced religion most of my life and so have as good an understanding of it as anyone else. Feel free to explain how failure to believe something unproven is an indication of bigotry. I would have thought that the contrary view was a more potent indicator. What all religion hangs upon is the proof of existence of a deity or deities, so until that little problem is overcome I adopt the default positon and say must try harder. Nice attempt to sidetrack by the way...

[jomifl]

Correction, what all religions depend upon is the lack of proof of the existence of their chosen deity because up to that point their deity can be anything they want... be careful what you wish for..

[Khandro]

jomifl; My reference is to my post 20:00 Wed, i.e. the sharing of bread, not religion per se
When David Cameron says how important to him is the weekly partaking of a Sung Eucharist service, many will know what he means; I know what he means and - on this thread - I think Sandy knows what he means, it may be presumptuous of me to say it, but I suspect, you don't know what he means, therefore I suggest that your denigration of something you do not understand, might be described as an act of atheistic bigotry, n'est pas?

[jomifl]

You made a reference to the sharing of bread though that was not the topic of the discussion as far as I can see. If you wish to start a thread on the 'sharing of bread' then feel free but in reality it has little to do with the existence of god.

[jomifl]

Khandro, up to your old tricks again, please explain where I denigrated something I don't understand. You might also like to clarify what you believe I don't understand. Bear in mind that unless you can prove the existence of god, further discussion of religion is pointless.

[Khandro]

jomifl; //please explain where I denigrated something I don't understand.//

Well there was this, and lots more;

//I'm always ready for religion Khandro, thats why it doesn't get past my garbage filter...//

What I suggest is, that which David Cameron and many others find life-enhancing (Sung Eucharist) you do not comprehend, but you feel competent enough to call it garbage.

[naomi24]

Khandro, //What I suggest is, that which David Cameron and many others find life-enhancing (Sung Eucharist) you do not comprehend//

You really ought to explain exactly what it is that you think Jom doesn't comprehend. He did ask you to.

[jomifl]

Naomi, Khandro is just having a dig at me because I suggested that someone wouldn't understand my explanation of why Earthappears to be so suited to life, his answer suggests that I was correct, It is really of no consequence and I don't expect to get a reasoned reply but thanks for the support. As for the sung eucharist, it is of even less consequence other than to the participants who seem to enjoy it as much as a nights clubbing..

[Khandro]

I think that says it all ^. El no etiende !

[jomifl]

Khandro, you don't mean to say that their is more to it than a good sing song and a bit of cosily familiar ritual. Plwase elucidate

[Khandro]

anyone who can compare a Sung Eucharist with a night's clubbing is waaay out of their depth.

[jomifl]

Well, that is a decisive argument, I'm so convinced I'll nip around to the church tomorrow, that's if it is open on a Sunday.. :-)

[Khandro]

That would be an excellent idea, and it would be immensely good for your soul, though I somehow think the chances of it happening are rather bleak; ah well, you can always instead go night-clubbing!!

[jomifl]

Khandro, I suspect you just compared a sung eucharist with night clubbing, not that you would admit it.
A sung eucharist may have some significance to you but to 99% of the world (including me) population it don't amount to a hill o' beans...
Feel free to explain it's importance in your own time..

[naomi24]

Jom, I fear you'll never know. ;o)

[Khandro]

//Jom, I fear you'll never know. ;o)//

With the deepest regret, I have to agree.

[naomi24]

Khandro, why do you bother at all? Your posts are not exactly conducive to lively discussion in this section.

[benhilton]

.....So - where is it then Jomifl ?.....You know - this life on the other planets- where is it......?

...It would appear that you are believing in life on the other planets without any scientific evidence for it....

[jomifl]

Benh,/It would appear that you are believing in life on the other planets without any scientific evidence for it.... /
Not quite, I am suggesting that your statement that life hasn't evolved on other planets cannot be proven just as the non-existence of god cannot be proven (allegedly).

[jomifl]

Naomi, It is only everybody else that has to provide concrete evidence for the least assertion, Khandro as usual never does.