Can Islam Be Reformed?

[naomi24]

Somali-born ex-Muslim writer and politician, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who worked with murdered film director Theo van Gogh, said in an interview with Britain's Channel 4 News that Islam must be reformed to save it from extremists. //Schools and mosques must stop "taking young children, boys and girls, and filling their heads, using the Quran and the example of the Prophet Mohammed, filling their heads with hatred for this life, filling their heads with the idea of jihad, with the idea of Sharia."//

That will mean rejection of sections of the Koran and of the Prophet Mohammed’s perceived infallibility – but both are unthinkable to Muslims. What hope?

[naomi24]

//Okay, what this thread is about is that I was curious to know whether the word "kill" appears in the Koran at all and, if so, how many times. //

I understood that^ to be your question.

[Hypognosis]

Ultimately, yes.

If the English version says "kill" but the original Arabic says "tolerate", or "convert" or "teach" then whoever did the English translation has a lot of explaining to do.

Before using AB I thought they all had to learn Arabic as translating the Koran was illegal (under Sharia). Hence the lack of substantial replies or debate on my thread. Apologies for side-tracking yours but it is on-topic if straightening out language errors is a stepping-stone to reform.

[naomi24]

There are several translations, but no doubt if there were any major discrepancy other scholars would have noticed and objected.

[vetuste_ennemi]

I can say only how the verse cited by Hypo is rendered in my translation (Penguin Classics). It's "kill".
I saw a video of Mark Durie (who does know classical Arabic) discussing the sword verses. He says they're often much stronger (i.e. swordier) in the original than in translation. He gave a specific example of the word often translated as "fight". According to Dr. Durie the Arabic word lacks the metaphorical nuances which colour its uses in English and refers exclusively to physical struggle and death.

[sevenOP]

That is the link f-f and Z-M got the time right - Thanks to both.

My point being that fundamentalist interpretation suits key muslim countries.

[dieseldick]

(function(d, s, id) { var js, fjs = d.getElementsByTagName(s)[0]; if (d.getElementById(id)) return; js = d.createElement(s); js.id = id; js.src = "//connect.facebook.net/en_GB/sdk.js#xfbml=1&version=v2.3"; fjs.parentNode.insertBefore(js, fjs);}(document, 'script', 'facebook-jssdk'));Stunning Video the world was never supposed to see.... Secty. of State John Kerry introduces Admiral Ace Lyons to speak at a private meeting. He probably regrets doing so.Posted by Adrian Ionescu on Monday, 7 September 2015

[dieseldick]

sorry here is the link . Media URL: https://youtu.be/nZS5NGrYsLU
Description:

[Hypognosis]

@DieselDick

That "Enter You Tube Link Here..." window hasn't worked properly for over 2 years. Last I recall AB.Ed advised to just not use it because they are unable to fix it.

Paste the link straight into the message window and don't attemt to wrap any html tags around it.

In fact I've seen pasted links fail purely because there is no space between the last full stop or letter of a word and the h in 'http'. I just hit return and then paste the link.

[redvanman]

Well said Jackdaw

[redvanman]

Did any one watch channel 4 Monday night 9pm IS woman in Britain spouting there ate for Britain all from the LONDON area time for deporting them and ban the burka there cover

[fiction-factory]

"there ate for Britain"?

I think you mean "their hate for Britain", so I agree with you for once. It was enlightening, especially as they happily spouted about being sisters supporting their brave brothers fighting for ISIS in Syria while their young children sat in the room

[ludwig]

Birdie talking about keyplus - // A couple of weeks ago you claimed to be a "moderate" muslim. You specifically used the word "moderate". However, as I have stated before, you have on a number of occasions, advocated the following:

1. the abolition of democracy;
2. the imposition of sharia law on the whole of the UK population;
3. threats of violence to anyone who opposes your views;
4. rejection of observable science over religious dogma;
5. the marriage of little girls to grown men;
6. chopping off of the hands of thieves as punishment for their crime.
//

You forgot to mention the fact that he's also a holocaust denier.

[redvanman]

What will be dun about these ISIS WOMEN on channel 4 Monday night nothing I bet

[redvanman]

Reform is impossible thy are all brain wash't form birth

[fiction-factory]

Your keyboard is worse than mine, redvanman

[redvanman]

Religion will destroy the world