The More I Learn About This Religion Lark, The More I Hate It.

[wildwood]

A popular ploy by the learned religious to excuse the unpopular bible parts seems to be that "one must not take certain passage in the bible and take them to be as read".

I'd like someone to explain away the Deuteronomy 21:18 - 21

18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:

19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;

20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.

21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

[naomi24]

idiosyncrasy, Many people who have been exposed to religious indoctrination suffer mental illness. How do you explain that?

[idiosyncrasy]

Naomi@ People are exposed all sorts of things in life and suffer mental illness. Religion does not cause mental illness. just like coughing doesn't make you ill, neither does religion., It means you're already ill. 

[naomi24]

idiosyncrasy, I beg to differ - but you keep telling yourself that if it helps alleviate any notion of responsibility you might otherwise feel.

[idiosyncrasy]

Naomi@ I don't feel any responsibility for people's mental deficiencies. That is entirely up to them. I don't cause it and as I know people who are suffering from bi-polar and similar ailments (?) I know that it is not from religion.

[naomi24]

idiosyncrasy, I’m afraid the reality is that people who preach religion often cause others to suffer psychological damage. To introduce the evil concept of ‘sin’ into the mind, especially into the mind of an innocent child, thereby imposing a needless burden of fear, guilt, and non-existent culpability upon the subject, is cruelty in the extreme. You may wish to abdicate all responsibility – of course you do - but frankly you can’t. None of you can.

[RATTER15]

On the nail as usual Naomi! Well said!

[naomi24]

Thank you, Ratter.

[Khandro]

n. Are atheists somehow excluded from sinning?

[naomi24]

Khandro, Absolutely! ‘Sin’ equates to a transgression against divine law or an offence against God, if you like. It follows that whilst an atheist must, just like everyone else, adhere to society’s laws, since he doesn’t believe in divine law or God, the concept of ‘sin’ does not exist for him. A ‘sin’ is not necessarily a crime.

[Quizproquo]

Yes they are Khandro because sinning is a religious concept that atheists do not believe in.
They are not however excluded from committing crimes or exhibiting terrible behaviour. That is universal.

[Old_Geezer]

That may be the original and main definition of sin but I suspect many folk, myself included, use the word in a wider context to mean something done which is wrong. A violation of moral principles, or even, perhaps, against social standards. In which case anyone can sin.

[naomi24]

//A violation of moral principles, or even, perhaps, against social standards.//

Whose moral principles - and the standards of which society?

[Old_Geezer]

The society you are in. It's generally agreed moral beliefs.

[naomi24]

OG, but the moral beliefs that religion promotes aren't necessarily the same as societies.

[naomi24]

*society's.

[Old_Geezer]

Then there would be disagreement as to what is and isn't a sin. Fairly typical of life and folk's opinions. It's the basis of many disagreements between those whose religious beliefs hold God and laws attributed to God as being more important than secular laws indisputably made by man.

[Khandro]

Lust, Gluttony, Greed, Laziness, Wrath, Envy and Pride.
None of these ever naomi? None need necessarily have anything at all to do with religion.
Don't atheists talk about any of these to their children?

//To introduce the evil concept of ‘sin’ into the mind, especially into the mind of an innocent child, thereby imposing a needless burden of fear, guilt,....//

So if atheist's children commit any of these, they need not feel any remorse?

[naomi24]

OG, //Then there would be disagreement as to what is and isn't a sin.//

No disagreements in that respect. As I said, atheists don't acknowledge the concept of 'sin'.

Khandro, whatever they do, they don't live in fear of going to hell for it!

[Khandro]

naomi; //they [children] don't live in fear of going to hell//
I don't think there is much talk of that anymore. But the idea that "your sins will find you out" always applies.

[mibn2cweus]

Right and wrong are not dictated by command, divine or otherwise, but are rather determined through a process of rational deliberation over what sustains and promotes the well being of those presented with the capacity and necessity to choose with reality acting as the final arbitrator of the virtue of our choices.