Asia Bibi

[Khandro]

The same week that Mr Yousaf was extolling the idea that Britain is a proto-Nazi state and Pakistan a potential safe-haven, the Pakistani authorities saw the latest round of the interminable and unforgivable saga of Asia Bibi. This is the woman who has been on death-row in Pakistan for no crime other than the crime of being a Christian. Bibi has been awaiting execution for five years, purely because a neighbour claimed that Bibi had insulted Mohammed during an argument.

They attack the Conservative government of the UK for Nazism while not merely praising, but lauding as a safe haven, a state which actually persecutes and murders people because of their religion.

Which means that he is doing what many other people today are doing, which is knowingly to cover for a racist despotism, so long as it is despotism with an Islamic face.

Douglas Murray, October 21, 2016

[vetuste_ennemi]

Been following her case for a while, Khandro. Nothing new since the last appeal against the death sentence was deferred (yet again) in 2015. Then found this a few days ago (bit of a funny translation from the original Urdu I think):

http://www.pakistanchristianpost.com/detail.php?hnewsid=6127

[naomi24]

//Been following her case for a while, Khandro. //

Me too - and it gets worse.

http://www.christiansinpakistan.com/a-maulana-offers-a-reward-to-anyone-who-kills-asia-bibi/

[Khandro]

v_e: Me too, she's on my mind a lot.

Naomi: That is beyond belief. My OP doesn't contain a question, I don't suppose it requires one other than, Why? but looking at the face of this bearded moron; Maulana Yousaf Qureshi, I'm tempted to ask, isn't this the embodiment of evil?

Asia was constantly taunted and baited by muslim women when collecting water in her village, insulting her and her Christian religion, until one day she answered back with a fairly moderate, in the circumstances, response.

It makes the blood boil, and I sometimes think calls for a world '*** Mohammad day' would not be too unreasonable !

[vetuste_ennemi]

This woman (and, for that matter, many Christians throughout the Muslim world - and not just those in territories controlled by ISIS) is a victim. And far more so than the children in Calais and the asylum seekers in Greece and Germany. There is an asymmetry between the sympathy given to the latter groups (on AB and elsewhere) and that given to the Asia Bibis, don't you think?

[Khandro]

According to Islamic law, the word of a Christian is not valid against the word of a Muslim. Accusations of blasphemy against Christians by Muslims routinely result in the Christians being imprisoned, beaten, and sometimes killed -- in some cases even without evidence. Pakistan does not require proof of a crime, only allegations -- often made for extraneous reasons, and totally unfounded.

[mibn2cweus]

My concern lies not with those are victims of the consequences of their own free choice to believe in the absurdity of an arbitrary divine overseer of reality but rather with those who, in spite of their choice to acknowledge and respect reality, are no less subjected to living in the same world the aforementioned have through their depraved worldview made a living hell.

[mibn2cweus]

My concern lies not with those who are victims of the consequences of their own free choice to believe in the absurdity of an arbitrary divine overseer of reality but rather with those who, in spite of their choice to acknowledge and respect reality, are no less subjected to living in the same world the aforementioned have through their depraved worldview made a living hell.

[Khandro]

^ Pompous prat!

[naomi24]

Khandro, behave! Mibs has a point. Like it or not, without religion this wouldn’t be happening.

Birdie, //The greatest weapons that Islam has over the non-muslim population is ignorance and apathy.//

I think it goes even deeper than that. V_E asks //There is an asymmetry between the sympathy given to the latter groups (on AB and elsewhere) and that given to the Asia Bibis, don't you think?//. Yes, I do think, but that isn’t solely as a result of ignorance and apathy. There also appears to exist a dogged and very deliberate determination to ignore and to dismiss the many unsavoury facets of a vile religion that espouses a backward philosophy that, to the civilised world, should not only be utterly unacceptable, but utterly unthinkable. A plethora of dismissive and supportive western apologists (it's the thing to do, don't ya know?), is the most powerful weapon that Islam has over the non-Muslim population. If this appalling situation had been politically motivated, world condemnation would have been deafening – and the defenders of Islam, in their self-imposed self-righteous role as sagely compassionate, morally inspired, champions of humanity and justice, would doubtless have been at the front of the queue. As it is, they are not.

[Khandro]

naomi; // Mibs has a point.//

[I'll break my own rule of not speaking of another poster in the 3rd person.]

Yes, he has a point alright, and it's one of the worst I have ever read on AB, and it seems one you subscribe to as well; that Asia's plight is simply her own fault for being a Christian - having done no harm to anyone, shame on you.

[naomi24]

Khandro, calm down. I think you've misunderstood what he said. Your interpretation of it isn't mine.

[Khandro]

I suppose the holocaust was the fault of the Jews for being Jewish, was it?

[naomi24]

Khandro, Don’t be ridiculous. You promote yourself as being a bit of a philosopher, but if you were your condemnation of this would not come solely because the lady in question is Christian. The simple fact is had anyone, be it Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, Jew, atheist – or indeed Muslim - criticised Mohammed, they would have found themselves in a similar situation. Therefore the fundamental issue here is not that she is a Christian, but that the proponents of Islam consider their religion to be beyond reproach and therefore their entitlement to punish ‘offenders’ as they see fit, justified. That’s what’s wrong and that’s what you should be railing against. I think everyone here understands that - except you.

[hereIam]

My goodness, this is the first I've heard of this terrible injustice. Poor, poor soul.

[Khandro]

naomi; Why don't you face up to what you have said instead of spinning, you said;

// Mibs has a point. Like it or not, without religion this wouldn’t be happening.//

You are not saying, without the wickedness Islam this wouldn't be happening, you claiming that all peaceful religion is the root cause. From what lofty heights do you make such a claim?
You are personally free to believe or disbelieve anything you like, but don't say that Asia Bibi is in any way to blame and that she wouldn't be in this appalling situation if she wasn't a Christian. Stop this blather.

[naomi24]

Khandro, I’m not spinning. Without religion it wouldn’t be happening. That’s a logical fact. Furthermore, I haven’t said she is to blame – no one has said she’s to blame. Do you disagree that had anyone other than a Christian said this they would be in a similar position? I’d hazard a guess that you wouldn’t be defending an atheist so vehemently though because, although you don’t realise it, your bias towards religion has clouded your moral judgement. In short, you’re quick to seek the mote in other eyes but oblivious to the thumping great plank in your own.

[vetuste_ennemi]

All religions are dangerous to the extent that they subordinate reason to revelation. But not necessarily to the same degree. As Douglas Murray (along with many others) has observed: there is less moral hazard in a religion which exhorts its followers to love their enemies than one which exhorts its followers to hate them. And Sam Harris: you're not that likely to get a jihadi out of a Jain.

[vetuste_ennemi]

I think the regular, compassionate posters must be away in Croydon welcoming the children. (Jo Brand on HIGNFY last night: "They're taking them to Croydon. Well, you can't take traumatised people from a hell hole like the Calais camp and introduce them to civilised society too quickly, can you?")

[naomi24]

Whilst it’s true that other mainstream religions are rather less aggressive towards people of other faiths than Islam very clearly is, the point Khandro seems to be determined to ignore is that it isn’t acceptable for this to happen to anyone – Christian or otherwise.