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F A O Theland. Why I Dont Believe
191 Answers
In the Christian God.
Theland, you are always extorting ABers to 'look it up' with regards to the Bible and Christianity. And you seem to have a distorted view of non-believers. I would ask YOU to consider why people (like me) reject the Bible.
As a teenager, I became an evangelical Christian, of the born again variety. In my early 20's I seriously began to question my faith. I was an avid reader and read everything that I could get my hands on regard the Bible, apologetics, church history, Biblical archaeology, Bible commentaries etc. However over time I had to accept that my faith was based on nothing except a bunch of ancient, contradictory manuscripts. I questioned what was been preached from the pulpit. Hell, I questioned everything!
I prayed that if the Bible was the word of God that he would show me, unequivocally, that it was. He didn't. I left.
I am not a non believer because I want to sin
I am not a non believer because I'm in rebellion
I am not a non believer because Ive had bad experiences of church
I am not a non believer because I choose to be
I am a non believer in the Christian God because that's where my questioning led me.
Now at 52, I wonder just how I ever believed such junk as found in the Bible.
The Bible insults my Intelligence, My moral code, My sense of justice.
Do I have all the answers to life's big questions? No. Why would I be so arrogant as to think I did? But because humans know so little, that doesn't mean that we should go running to some ancient manuscripts written by bronze age, desert dwelling goat herders in the middle east thousands of years ago for answers.
Seriously Theland, take a break from You Tube evangelists and open your mind a bit. Question a little. (maybe even try to answer some of the questions put to you by fellow ABers without feeling persecuted)
Theland, you are always extorting ABers to 'look it up' with regards to the Bible and Christianity. And you seem to have a distorted view of non-believers. I would ask YOU to consider why people (like me) reject the Bible.
As a teenager, I became an evangelical Christian, of the born again variety. In my early 20's I seriously began to question my faith. I was an avid reader and read everything that I could get my hands on regard the Bible, apologetics, church history, Biblical archaeology, Bible commentaries etc. However over time I had to accept that my faith was based on nothing except a bunch of ancient, contradictory manuscripts. I questioned what was been preached from the pulpit. Hell, I questioned everything!
I prayed that if the Bible was the word of God that he would show me, unequivocally, that it was. He didn't. I left.
I am not a non believer because I want to sin
I am not a non believer because I'm in rebellion
I am not a non believer because Ive had bad experiences of church
I am not a non believer because I choose to be
I am a non believer in the Christian God because that's where my questioning led me.
Now at 52, I wonder just how I ever believed such junk as found in the Bible.
The Bible insults my Intelligence, My moral code, My sense of justice.
Do I have all the answers to life's big questions? No. Why would I be so arrogant as to think I did? But because humans know so little, that doesn't mean that we should go running to some ancient manuscripts written by bronze age, desert dwelling goat herders in the middle east thousands of years ago for answers.
Seriously Theland, take a break from You Tube evangelists and open your mind a bit. Question a little. (maybe even try to answer some of the questions put to you by fellow ABers without feeling persecuted)
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Theland //there can be no objective morality without God. //
Claiming a godly source does not imbue anything with objectivity.
In fact the spurious sense of morality proclaimed in the Bible can be objectively shown to be extremely subjective and profoundly sick. Claims of being basis for morality are the weakest and most vulnerable aspects of religion.
Claiming a godly source does not imbue anything with objectivity.
In fact the spurious sense of morality proclaimed in the Bible can be objectively shown to be extremely subjective and profoundly sick. Claims of being basis for morality are the weakest and most vulnerable aspects of religion.
Perhaps surprisingly for some, I’m going to defend Theland here.
Nailit, you have chosen your path; I’ve chosen mine; Theland and Spungle have chosen theirs.
I’m not going to go criticise or attack anyone for the path they have chosen. That’s their choice and, frankly, it’s none of my business. Especially so, if that choice does not affect me or others in any way.
If someone asks why atheists are interested religious matters, I’ll respond, since I have some experience in that area. However, in my view, there’s no need to seek to proselytise either in favour of a god or Gods, or in favour of an agnostic or atheistic position.
Give information and opinion when asked, but otherwise, as Mamya said at 22.48, try to live a kind, honest life, treat others as we wish to be treated ourselves and just get on with it without justification or preaching. Actions speak louder than words, in my opinion.
People choose their path after some conversations, some thought, some experiences – both positive and negative. Nailit, in your case, there have been some negatives surrounding your religious experiences (your OP). These have driven you down your current path.
Theland has had different experiences, and those have sent him down a different path.
I’ll say quite happily that Theland comes across (to me) as a bit misguided. I have little doubt that I come across to him as equally misguided (probably more so). But for Theland, and also for me, that is our choice. I am perfectly comfortable in that choice. Theland says he is also comfortable with his choices. Nailit says he is comfortable with his own choices. Naomi is comfortable with her choices.
So what’s the problem? Live and let live.
In fact, that's a re-phrasing of the only moral code you need to live by: 'treat others as you would wish to be treated yourself' That needs no heaven-sent inspiration. It's just a common-sense, practical and eminently workable rule for getting along with other people.
Nailit, you have chosen your path; I’ve chosen mine; Theland and Spungle have chosen theirs.
I’m not going to go criticise or attack anyone for the path they have chosen. That’s their choice and, frankly, it’s none of my business. Especially so, if that choice does not affect me or others in any way.
If someone asks why atheists are interested religious matters, I’ll respond, since I have some experience in that area. However, in my view, there’s no need to seek to proselytise either in favour of a god or Gods, or in favour of an agnostic or atheistic position.
Give information and opinion when asked, but otherwise, as Mamya said at 22.48, try to live a kind, honest life, treat others as we wish to be treated ourselves and just get on with it without justification or preaching. Actions speak louder than words, in my opinion.
People choose their path after some conversations, some thought, some experiences – both positive and negative. Nailit, in your case, there have been some negatives surrounding your religious experiences (your OP). These have driven you down your current path.
Theland has had different experiences, and those have sent him down a different path.
I’ll say quite happily that Theland comes across (to me) as a bit misguided. I have little doubt that I come across to him as equally misguided (probably more so). But for Theland, and also for me, that is our choice. I am perfectly comfortable in that choice. Theland says he is also comfortable with his choices. Nailit says he is comfortable with his own choices. Naomi is comfortable with her choices.
So what’s the problem? Live and let live.
In fact, that's a re-phrasing of the only moral code you need to live by: 'treat others as you would wish to be treated yourself' That needs no heaven-sent inspiration. It's just a common-sense, practical and eminently workable rule for getting along with other people.
//Nailit, in your case, there have been some negatives surrounding your religious experiences (your OP).//
Kidas, please show me where in my OP where ive stated that Ive had negative religious experiences. Ive made it plain in my post that I left Christianity because I questioned and examined the evidence and found it flawed. Or do you think that questioning faith is somehow negative?
Kidas, please show me where in my OP where ive stated that Ive had negative religious experiences. Ive made it plain in my post that I left Christianity because I questioned and examined the evidence and found it flawed. Or do you think that questioning faith is somehow negative?
Hi Nailit
"However over time I had to accept that my faith was based on nothing except a bunch of ancient, contradictory manuscripts."
Seems a bit negative to be. But you might disagree.
All I'm saying is that the belief or otherwise in a set of myths (or truths, as you prefer) of random misguided old men on the internet such as me does not affect you.
Or maybe it does, but I don't really understand how or why.
"However over time I had to accept that my faith was based on nothing except a bunch of ancient, contradictory manuscripts."
Seems a bit negative to be. But you might disagree.
All I'm saying is that the belief or otherwise in a set of myths (or truths, as you prefer) of random misguided old men on the internet such as me does not affect you.
Or maybe it does, but I don't really understand how or why.
And for Naomi, I'm not supporting the belief systems of Theland or other religionists (at least, I didn't think I was). I'm acknowledging that I have no power to change those beliefs.
That really doesn't worry me in the slightest.
If you think I'm supporting that approach, I'm happy to discuss it with you.
I did say , "Especially so, if that choice does not affect me or others in any way. "
When someone holds beliefs that impinge upon the freedom or health or safety of others, then we have to address it.
That really doesn't worry me in the slightest.
If you think I'm supporting that approach, I'm happy to discuss it with you.
I did say , "Especially so, if that choice does not affect me or others in any way. "
When someone holds beliefs that impinge upon the freedom or health or safety of others, then we have to address it.
Kidas, it might not affect Nailit on a personal level – if he’s anything like me he probably doesn’t mind a bit when people tell him he’s a sinner and he’s headed for Hell – but I’d hazard a guess that he does object when the young, the innocent, and the naïve are negatively affected by that claptrap – and we won’t even go into the foibles if Islam and how that affects people. Live and let live? Only if you couldn’t give a hoot about your fellow man.
I'm supporting the right for each to believe or not according to how they feel.
Should they commit bad deeds then they are a bad person whatever their viewpoint.
In this case Nailit has decided through experience he doesn't believe, Theland the subject of the title has decided he does.
If both are happy then that should suffice for them - nothing wrong with continuing to seek further information but it always seems to become pointed and nasty.
Should they commit bad deeds then they are a bad person whatever their viewpoint.
In this case Nailit has decided through experience he doesn't believe, Theland the subject of the title has decided he does.
If both are happy then that should suffice for them - nothing wrong with continuing to seek further information but it always seems to become pointed and nasty.
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