Origin Of Information.

[Theland]

I believe all information originates in a mind.
If you disagree with this, any examples?

[Old_Geezer]

Against my usually preferred option, saw the half hour video. Not sure I'd agree with everything shown but it very much coincided with my present view. Maybe there's a configuration where atrocities never appear, and existence is great for all in every time capsule. Worth a thought.

[Zacs-Master]

(Bump for ogs post)

[THECORBYLOON]

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[THECORBYLOON]

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[Khandro]

Zacs; //The information existed before a mind contemplated it.//

That assertion is a product of your mind & nothing else.

[Zacs-Master]

Ok then. The event / circumstances existed. Our minds make it information.

[bainbrig]

Yes, the Buddha did teach us that all things flow from the mind, but he also taught (when questioned about being re-born) that it really doesn’t matter.

What does matter, he went on, was living as good a life as possible, THIS time round! And if there is re-birth, you’ll have done all you can, and if not, well...

This current debate about the mind/information problem strikes me as similar, and smacks of angels on pin heads.

In kindness,

BillB

[Khandro]

^^ That is simply another assertion presented to us by your mind. It doesn't bridge the gap between the mind & the world.

[Khandro]

That was to Zacs

[bainbrig]

I see.

How many angels CAN you get on one, then?

[Zacs-Master]

Events and circumstances exist everywhere in the universe. We happen to be sentient bipedal beings who interpret and level them as information. That information exists even if we’re unaware of it, therefore information doesn’t need a mind.

Around 50% of the atoms in your body originated outside the Milky Way. I only mention this as an example of the strangeness of what we call existence.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/jul/27/we-are-all-made-of-stars-half-our-bodies-atoms-formed-beyond-the-milky-way

[Zacs-Master]

Label them...

[Khandro]

Zacs; //That information exists even if we’re unaware of it, //

No - it isn't information if no one is aware of it.

Example: In millions of years, no sentient being has lived on the moon (for arguments sake). Throughout that time it was battered by countless meteorites, nobody knew of this because nobody had witnessed it or verified it until surprisingly recently - unbelievably Patrick Moore died convinced the craters were volcanic - .

Now we know this, it has become information which can be passed between minds. Before that this information simply did not exist in any shape or form.

[bainbrig]

Sorry, hadn’t realised this was a private conversation between Khandro and Zacs.

If you ever start a thread involving Buddhism, linguistics and philosophy, perhaps you could let me know...

[naomi24]

Khandro, I'm not sure what you're saying. Do you, like Theland, believe that information originates in 'a mind' - and if so is that any mind or a specific mind?

[pixie374]

Yes, information does exist without a mind, khandro. It needs a mind to interpret it, that's all. DNA is not created in a mind, and still does the same whether we understand how it works, or not.

[Zacs-Master]

‘No - it isn't information if no one is aware of it’

Then what is it?

[Khandro]

Cor blimey! Please go to a dictionary & come back when you have looked up INFORMATION.

[Old_Geezer]

I think there may be disagreement over what constitutes information, data, and knowledge. Folk do use the terms interchangeably and it's therefore unclear how it was meant in the OP. Information is extracted from data, but must be already in there somewhere in order to be extracted and thus increase someone's knowledge. If this 16 page (so far) thread is just about disagreeing as to what being considered maybe the OP needs clarifying.

[Zacs-Master]

I clarified what the OP meant a long time ago, OG. It’s just another one of his obtuse ‘creator’ arguments. We all seem to have become embroiled in a chicken and egg discussion about whether information exists before anyone interprets it. I (and quite a few others) say it does. Khandro and Theland say it doesn’t.