Area 51 And Flying Saucers

[GymLadTim]

Not sure if this is the right section of answerbank but I watched this really captivating show on Netflix today called “Bob Lazar – Area 51 and The Flying Saucers”.

Would defo recommend if you are into alien conspiracy stuff. I’ve heard an interview with Bob Lazar before on the Joe Rogan podcast and was fascinated by the dude.

I’ll give a brief background. Bob was a physicist who claims to have worked on alien tech at Area 51 during the 80’s. He was a whisleblower and has basically had his life ruined since going public – so has almost everyone associated with him. During the documentary the FBI show up at his home and start going through his stuff. I found some of his claims compelling, although his whole past including education records have been deleted.

Does anyone have any thoughts about Area 51 or governments concealing information about alien contact?

Tim

XXX

[naomi24]

//Using basic logic you'd have to at least put us middle aged. //

No logic in that. We’re beginners – just 50 years since we ventured on to the moon. We have no idea of what the next 500 years may reveal.

[ToraToraTora]

again how do you know? You have a sample of 1.

[ToraToraTora]

there will be societies out their still using spears to hunt animals, you cannot possibly determine that we are "infants" with no other data to go on.

[hereIam]

When I saw my ufo's other people saw them too ..

[Mozz71]

3T, you clearly have a great deal of knowledge on this which I can't match, but as you said, there may well be other races out there who look like savages compared to us, but by the same instance, we may look like that to a more advanced extraterrestrial life form.

While I get your points, I still state that you cannot possibly know the advances in technology others may have, or the technology we may achieve over the next few centuries.

[naomi24]

TTT, societies still hunting with spears? What on earth are you talking about? We’re talking about space exploration and technological advancement. I think you’re arguing for the sake of argument now. 

[naomi24]

hereIam, what did you see and where?

[pixie374]

TTT, why a sample of one?

My friend once, was a bit freaked out, as she had driven the same way home twice... and kept seeing odd lights, while it was dark and foggy. It happened twice in exactly the same place.
She then got two speeding tickets in the post.... and all became clear :-)

[ToraToraTora]

Naomi, if you accept there are other civilisations out there it follows that some will be more advanced and some less so, you seem to be assuming that we are at the bottom. I'd place us in the middle of the range because I have a sample of 1. analogy: If you line up all the kids in the school and pick 1 at random then do you assume that one is the slowest runner? No you assume there are some faster and some slower until you get more samples.

[ToraToraTora]

pixie: "TTT, why a sample of one? " - the only civilisation we know anything about is our own. We know nothing at all of the alien life forms out there, statistically therefore you must put the "1" in the middle of the range until you have more samples.

[ToraToraTora]

mozz: "3T, you clearly have a great deal of knowledge on this which I can't match, but as you said, there may well be other races out there who look like savages compared to us, but by the same instance, we may look like that to a more advanced extraterrestrial life form." - indeed that is why I put us in the middle of the range until I have further data.

[douglas9401]

I only know of one certainty in this life: Brexit doesn't mean Brexit.
Now feel free to continue with your fact based tirade me old China.

[naomi24]

TTT, //you seem to be assuming that we are at the bottom.//

I've not said that or even hinted at it because it isn't what I think. There could be all sorts of life out there from the very primitive to the super advanced. I just don't believe we've been in the business long enough to consider ourselves close to the top - but I have high hopes for the future.

[ToraToraTora]

naomi: "I've not said that or even hinted at it because it isn't what I think. There could be all sorts of life out there from the very primitive to the super advanced." - yes so how would we be in the infant stage?
"I just don't believe we've been in the business long enough to consider ourselves close to the top - but I have high hopes for the future. " - you are only referring to space travel but again you have no basis to put us at the bottom end. My point about the "infancy" argument is more about the overall development of a civilisation from first learning to use tools to space travel, in that, with only us as a sample we must put ourselves in the middle until further data is available.

[hereIam]

An unexplained light in the sky naomi in broad daylight out of the office window. About 15 years ago. Three of us saw it. The other sighting was a bit weirder and many years ago - two of us saw them. I don't want to go into detail on here, because too many are too keen on taking the pee.

What did you see ?

[ToraToraTora]

what you saw may be unidentified but it ain't aliens.

[jim360]

There is, as yet, no hard evidence that the laws of physics vary throughout the Universe, and quite a lot of evidence to suggest that they do not. But in any case, it hardly matters what aliens billions of light years away can or can't do. What matters (if they want to visit us) is what is achievable *here*.

It's extremely unlikely that aliens have visited because you have to take at least several considerations into account. First and foremost, it's not even clear how likely the chance of such life emerging in the first place is. There is some suggestion that complex life emerging on Earth is more or less an accident, for example. If it's accidental, then the chances of complex life developing elsewhere are already small. Presumably non-zero -- what has been an accident here could clearly happen elsewhere in the right conditions -- but small nonetheless.

The second generation stars TTT mentions are also related, because that places a time limit on how long such life will have had to develop, etc. I'm not sure how significant the restriction is because I think it only knocks a couple of billion years off the available time, but it acts as another constraint all the same. Taken all together they at least squeeze the chances of life, let alone multicellular life, let alone intelligent life, let alone technologically capable life... emerging.

None of this is undermined either by what we don't know yet. I don't need reminding of how much science has yet to discover and understand, but that doesn't undermine the ability to make an assessment *now*, based on what our current understanding is. Being open to the future goes hand-in-hand with being mindful of the present.

[hereIam]

I didn't say it was.

[naomi24]

Jim, Have you actually read this thread or have you just waded in blindly because, as evidenced from past discussions, it’s a subject that tends to ruffle your feathers - and I have had to refer you to past posts?

//There is, as yet, no hard evidence that the laws of physics vary throughout the Universe//

And there’s no hard evidence that they don’t. See my post at 14:07.

//But in any case, it hardly matters what aliens billions of light years away can or can't do. //

Why assume they would necessarily come from billions of light years away? See my post at 15:00.

// What matters (if they want to visit us) is what is achievable *here*. //

That makes no sense at all. What is achievable here has no bearing on what might be achievable for them.

//First and foremost, it's not even clear how likely the chance of such life emerging in the first place is. //

That’s a different issue entirely.

//The second generation stars TTT mentions are also related, because that places a time limit on how long such life will have had to develop, etc. //

See my post at 15:00.

//I don't need reminding of how much science has yet to discover and understand//

Good. Tell TTT that.

TTT to hereIam, //what you saw may be unidentified but it ain't aliens.//

You don’t know what it was.

hereIam, I saw a silver ball flying silently and fairly swiftly on a definite trajectory very low over the roof of a low rise block of flats. It was broad daylight.

[ToraToraTora]

jim, I've tried, your turn.