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Exorcisms
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The Catholic Church is perhaps the best known church for dealing with such stuff.
(Thanks to the movie 'The Exorcist')
Just wondering what the deal is with other denominations, eg J.W's..
As a very young (ex) evangelical, I saw a few services where these kind of ceremonies were practiced. It freaked me out. Years later, with an understanding of basic human psychology,
It seems primitive to say the least.
BUT, Back to the question, do other denominations still practice this?
And in addition, why?
(Thanks to the movie 'The Exorcist')
Just wondering what the deal is with other denominations, eg J.W's..
As a very young (ex) evangelical, I saw a few services where these kind of ceremonies were practiced. It freaked me out. Years later, with an understanding of basic human psychology,
It seems primitive to say the least.
BUT, Back to the question, do other denominations still practice this?
And in addition, why?
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They do ... but it's rarely with the histrionics of Hollywood. And it's also carefully undertaken, taking into account all kinds of other issues, including social background, psychological factors, issues of possible abuse and so on.
Jesus was in no doubt as to there being a spiritual battle going on. So were the Apostles. The problem in our society is that if you can't empirically 'prove' something, then it doesn't exist. Bible Christians just can't go with that, not least because it disses Jesus' own teaching and practice.
C.S. Lewis wrote this, in the Screwtape Letters, and it's probably still accurate: 'There are two equal and opposite errors into which our race can fall about the devils. One is to disbelieve in
their existence. The other is to believe, and to feel an excessive and unhealthy interest in them. They themselves (the devils) are equally pleased by both errors and hail a materialist or a magician with the same delight.'
Jesus was in no doubt as to there being a spiritual battle going on. So were the Apostles. The problem in our society is that if you can't empirically 'prove' something, then it doesn't exist. Bible Christians just can't go with that, not least because it disses Jesus' own teaching and practice.
C.S. Lewis wrote this, in the Screwtape Letters, and it's probably still accurate: 'There are two equal and opposite errors into which our race can fall about the devils. One is to disbelieve in
their existence. The other is to believe, and to feel an excessive and unhealthy interest in them. They themselves (the devils) are equally pleased by both errors and hail a materialist or a magician with the same delight.'
I have a friend who is a schizophrenic.
He's a born again type of christian.
And yet some years ago I literally saw him take on (and almost beat) a team of coppers trying to restrain him during an episode.
He simply missed his meds.
Today he preaches Jesus to me,
A decade ago he nearly killed a police force.
Possessed of Demonic forces or a Born again Christian??
He's a born again type of christian.
And yet some years ago I literally saw him take on (and almost beat) a team of coppers trying to restrain him during an episode.
He simply missed his meds.
Today he preaches Jesus to me,
A decade ago he nearly killed a police force.
Possessed of Demonic forces or a Born again Christian??
Exiles, the Screwtape Letters was a polemical work which we don't have to agree with. I certainly don't accept as true mere assertions without any evidence to back them up.
'There are two equal and opposite errors into which our race can fall about the devils. One is to disbelieve in
their existence. The other is to believe, and to feel an excessive and unhealthy interest in them. They themselves (the devils) are equally pleased by both errors and hail a materialist or a magician with the same delight.'
That's a ridiculous statement. There is a third option, which is to believe in devils without an unhealthy interest (if that is in my view a contradiction). Lewis states quite clearly that he believes in devils, with no rational argument to supprt his view. It was a work of fiction, aimed at winning over readers by its apparent plausibility and ability to suspend disbleief, like all fiction.
'There are two equal and opposite errors into which our race can fall about the devils. One is to disbelieve in
their existence. The other is to believe, and to feel an excessive and unhealthy interest in them. They themselves (the devils) are equally pleased by both errors and hail a materialist or a magician with the same delight.'
That's a ridiculous statement. There is a third option, which is to believe in devils without an unhealthy interest (if that is in my view a contradiction). Lewis states quite clearly that he believes in devils, with no rational argument to supprt his view. It was a work of fiction, aimed at winning over readers by its apparent plausibility and ability to suspend disbleief, like all fiction.
Paign...
"The problem in our society is that if you can't empirically 'prove' something, then it doesn't exist."
How can you accept such a statement as having any intellectual validity? You can't empirically prove an uncountable number of things, and it doesn't prove that they don't exist, but it certainly doesn't prove, or even suggest high probability, that they do. I think people believe what they want to, what they feel in their guts: me, I prefer to think with my brain, not my intestines.
"The problem in our society is that if you can't empirically 'prove' something, then it doesn't exist."
How can you accept such a statement as having any intellectual validity? You can't empirically prove an uncountable number of things, and it doesn't prove that they don't exist, but it certainly doesn't prove, or even suggest high probability, that they do. I think people believe what they want to, what they feel in their guts: me, I prefer to think with my brain, not my intestines.
I may be mistaken, but always thought Broadmoor was society's secular answer to having to perform exorcisms. The mass murderers, psychopaths and paranoid schizophrenics may benefit from their stay there- who knows? But whether Broadmoor performs exorcisms on the demon-possessed, I wouldnt know- but if anyone was, it was the Peter Sutcliffes, Robert Maudsleys and Charles Salvadors of this world...
Spungle - // I may be mistaken, but always thought Broadmoor was society's secular answer to having to perform exorcisms. //
What a seriously strange and sinister view you have of mental illness, and society's responses to it.
Broadmoor and similar hospitals provide a secure environment for people whose various mental health problems mean that their crimes cannot be dealt with under standard prison conditions - they require incarceration, but also treatment with a view to allowing them to be integrated into the standard prison population.
How and where that equates to side-stepping exorcisms, I have absolutely no idea - it is a bizarre and offensive standpoint to add to an interesting and fruitful discussion.
What a seriously strange and sinister view you have of mental illness, and society's responses to it.
Broadmoor and similar hospitals provide a secure environment for people whose various mental health problems mean that their crimes cannot be dealt with under standard prison conditions - they require incarceration, but also treatment with a view to allowing them to be integrated into the standard prison population.
How and where that equates to side-stepping exorcisms, I have absolutely no idea - it is a bizarre and offensive standpoint to add to an interesting and fruitful discussion.
I've done it once and asked for someone to do it once. We don't call it Exorcism, more a cleansing. I moved into a rented house and one room was excessively cold. It was a conversion that had been a Malthouse. The feelings in that room became unbearable and I called on one of my friends a male witch to take a look -he cleansed the room and said there had been a spirit who could not move forward as they had died violently and quickly. I did some research, and someone had died tragically in the building in Victorian times when it was a Malthouse. The room remained cold, but the negative energy dispersed.
Second time I bought a job lot from an auction which contained a jewelry box. Inside was a piece of dress jewelry plus photos of males and females of various ages. That night I felt very negative presences in the room, really bad. The next day I 'dealt' with it and things returned to normal.
Some things are unexplainable though many will try to explain or denigrate. I just tend to get it dealt with. One thing I would never ever do is have a Seance, but thats probably for another thread.
Second time I bought a job lot from an auction which contained a jewelry box. Inside was a piece of dress jewelry plus photos of males and females of various ages. That night I felt very negative presences in the room, really bad. The next day I 'dealt' with it and things returned to normal.
Some things are unexplainable though many will try to explain or denigrate. I just tend to get it dealt with. One thing I would never ever do is have a Seance, but thats probably for another thread.
Spungle - // Locking up the demon-possessed isn't a bad plan, for their sake, or for the public, in the absence of exorcisms. What's your alternative? //
How about accepting that mental illness is a medical fact, and potentially treatable, and 'demonic possession' is a Middle Ages superstition with no place in a modern civilised society.
That would be a good place to start.
// No offence, intended my friend. //
Speaking as someone who has endured serious mental illness, and still does endure its residue on a daily basis - lots of offence taken, and I am not your 'friend'.
How about accepting that mental illness is a medical fact, and potentially treatable, and 'demonic possession' is a Middle Ages superstition with no place in a modern civilised society.
That would be a good place to start.
// No offence, intended my friend. //
Speaking as someone who has endured serious mental illness, and still does endure its residue on a daily basis - lots of offence taken, and I am not your 'friend'.
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