Cremation Any Knowledgeable Legal People About

[MissTerious2]

This is part of a cremation application form which is legally required. Is the person who has signed this has lied how does one go about proving this.

Are you a near relative or an executor of the person who has died?
Near relative means the widow, widower or surviving civil partner of the person
who has died, or a parent or child of the person who has died, or any other relative
usually residing with the person who has died.
If No, please give the nature of your relationship and explain why you are
making the application rather than a near relative or an executor.
Yes No
2. Is there any near relative(s) or executor(s) who has not been informed of the
proposed cremation?

Yes No
If Yes, please give the name(s) and the reason(s) why they have not been contacted.

3. Has any near relative or executor expressed any objection to the
proposed cremation?

Yes No
If Yes, please give details.

4. What was the date and time of death of the person who has died....

[barry1010]

What exactly has been lied about? It would be a lot easier to prove that the signee lied about rthe relationship to the deceased. Very difficult to prove he hasn't informed near relatives or executors

[Buenchico]

As Barry indicates, proving a relationship is simple enough but proving that a person wasn't informed of something, or that their views had been disregarded, is far harder because it's simply one person's word against another.

I suspect that hundreds of false declarations are made on cremation paperwork every single day, simply because it speeds things along for people. However prosecutions under section 8 of the Cremation Act 1902 (as amended) are extremely rare. The very few that are actually brought forward by the Crown Prosecution Service risk being thrown out of court because the burden of proof required is simply too great. e.g. https://www.shearmanbowen.co.uk/successful-application-to-dismiss-case-on-behalf-of-client-at-basildon-crown-court/

[MissTerious2]

We don't know who she is. Just a friend of my Husbands deceased sibling and he is the only relation. She has completed the sections asked in section 2. And lied. We didn't know she had died. The undertakers have agreed that she has broken the law. This woman had agreed to keep us informed. We only know her first name. We have ordered a copy of the death certificate which will give her name. But Husband now extremely upset. He and his sister were close. Just miles in distance between them.

[MissTerious2]

Thanks both of you.

[MissTerious2]

The funeral company say that they cant disclose the crematorium or disclose any details about any funeral that took place. We couldnt get down to see her when she was ill because of my health and the fact that my husband is my carer. We have been writing and telephoning, but we honestly believed this woman would be keeping us updated

[barry1010]

That is shocking

[MissTerious2]

It is Barry. We don't want anything. Except Hubby would like some mementoes. She has quite a valuable estate and we are concerned that this 'friend' is up to no good.

[barry1010]

I hope it pans out as it should

[andres]

Do you know your sister-in-laws solicitor name ? He might be able to help you.

[MissTerious2]

No we don't andres. We never shared any info about private matters. And she had no neighbours. A very capable intelligent lady who worked until she became ill at 77. She had lived alone for over 40years since divorcing.

[Buenchico]

I'd forget about the cremation problem and concentrate on the probate one. If your husband hasn't got your sister's will, he needs to gain access to her house (or to get a trusted person to do so on his behalf) to search for it (or for evidence that it might, perhaps, be in the hands of a solicitor).

If a will is found, he needs to ensure that it gets into the hands of the executor(s). If he's an executor himself, he then needs to apply for a grant of probate.

If it appears that his sister died intestate, he needs to apply for letters of administration. (The process is basically the same anyway).

https://www.gov.uk/applying-for-probate/apply-for-probate

Returning to the cremation problem though, it might be worth contacting the crematoria in the relevant area to see if they can provide any relevant information.

[Peter Pedant]

er sorry I dont think you are entitled to be told
1. says what is a near rel
I think you dont qualify
2. asks if they all have been informed and she has said yes

ergo

usually the patient has a spokesperson who does all the communication.

I think the reason why everyone is being so coy about discussing it with you, is that they have think altho you are a relative, you arent a near relative, and certainly not the nearest relative

PP
Declaration of Interest I made a mistake on Part 1 of a crem form and it was absolute hell....The Part 2 fillers out used to ring us ( signed the Death Cert) up but didnt do diddly squat else.

All the la-la is that someone does not get cremated if the death turns out to be suspicious. And Shipman of course.

[Peter Pedant]

in 1976
I was more careful after that

[bednobs]

Have to agree with pp. Your husband does not meet the criteria unless he is the executor. Is he? If not I can't see where she has lied

[MissTerious2]

Chris, We are just worried that his sister has been talked into changing her will. Years ago she told us she was leaving everything to our son, but things can change. She lives way down in the West Country and us in Norfolk. She has no neighbours. We don't know any friends. How can we get access to her house legally? Has my husband got any rights I just can't believe this has happened . We have found out from the registrar that she was in a care home when she died. She was living at her house in November when husband got the phone call from this woman. Typical of my hubby, he's so worried about her closest friend - her much loved cat.

[Buenchico]

^^^ PP seems to have a valid point.

As the wording quoted in your own post shows, your husband isn't a 'near relative' of his sister. (Yes, I know that sounds daft but the legal definition of a 'near relative' doesn't include siblings). Unless he's an executor of his sister's will (and the person applying for the cremation order could reasonably be expected to know that), it would appear that there's nothing amiss.

The complete form is here:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/697075/cremation-form-1-app-for-cremation-of-body.pdf

[Buenchico]

Someone going into a care home might well take important documents, such as a will, with them. So the first thing to do might be check with the care home to find out what happened to to your SIL's possessions when she passed away. (Those possessions might well also include a key to her house, which could make things a lot easier too).

If the cat is possibly be cared for on a temporary basis by someone, it might be worth contacting the Cinnamon Trust to see if they can help to find a new home for it:
https://cinnamon.org.uk/

(Alternatively you could try Cats Protection which, while it's a very worthwhile charity, is an organisation that I, and others, have found to have very poor lines of communication).

[MissTerious2]

Chris, he's the only living relative other than our son. The other sister died years ago. They were a refugee family with no ability to communicate with those they left behind.

[andres]

tHERE WOULD BE PRACTICAL DETAILS SUCH AS ---WHO PAID THE cREMATION BILL AND HOW I

[andres]

^^ apologies for the capital letters . Using a a small reading lamp and the computer somehow snatched my answer away .