Why The Anger?

[Oakleaf51]

If you are not religious, why do you get so heated up at those people that are?

[WaldoMcFroog]

I think you mistake exasperation for anger in the face of repeated failure of otherwise intelligent people to live their lives according to an obvious fiction.

[jenstar]

Because they can make decisions based on a ludicrous and irrational worldview that affect me.

[luna-tic]

Que Sera, Sera.....Whatever will be will be.
Humans beliefs are as diverse as those that live with them so whatever we hold as our strong opinions toward a certain way of being, that probably wont really change anything unless we are easily influenced or have something happen in our lives to change views.

[mibn2cweus]

With all due respect, your question, although evocative, is too broad by lack of definition (what specifically do you mean by "religion", who�s religion, what religion?) and generalizing (implying that "religion" invariably evokes anger in those who are not "religious") for a complete and concise answer to be formulated such that I would be able to present within the confines of this forum.

Without knowing what aspect of religion or what particular religious belief you have in mind, I must resign myself to responding to particulars as they arise in the responses that others may provide. On the other hand I hope you will consider providing more details and specifics as your question has spawned a variety of related thoughts I am eager to share (and the potential possibility of venting some heat directly towards you, lol)

I will at this point offer this however; I am intolerant of the widely religious view that humanity is inherently evil and worthy of eternal damnation since their �God� (who/whatever that is) did not see fit to provide us with omniscience in regard to the ultimate consequences of misguided and ill-informed actions that are an inescapable attribute of our need to develop our faculty of reason and thereby learn how to live in peace with each other and how to properly engage in mutually beneficial relationships so that we can overcome the hardships imposed by existence.

[Romeo]

Oakleaf, methinks the anti-religious on this site are not content to just live and let live. It is intolerable to them that anybody should hold any kind of philosophy other than materialism. They have decided that there is nothing more to life than getting what you can when you can and nothing more to death than extinction, and dare anyone say otherwise. No doubt they'll have a go at me now.

[WaldoMcFroog]

"There is nothing more to life than getting what you can"

Jesus! Do you actually believe that's what atheists think? No wonder you're so determined not to be one. I would too.

Fortunately, I'm happy to tell you that your statement is complete horsecack.

[mibn2cweus]

Romeo, Equating �materialism� with the need to question religious ideologies is a windowless prison you have erected around your own mind to shield yourself from the threat you perceive from considering a host of alternative possibilities. While religions in various forms constitute a variety of distinct philosophies most at best are a poor substitute for a philosophy the promotes the efficacy of the human mind and the nobility of rational thought and subsequent actions.

What a person is able to produce with the proper use of their own mind and the effort of their own labors requires no other sanction than that they have rightfully earned it without the use of coercion, mocking degradation or faithfully relying on the whims or favor of their creator. If you have no respect for the limited time of your existence and require the afterlife to justify your actions please reconsider the means by which you fulfill your current material needs because such an outlook brings your methods and the self-respect they should provide you with into question.

Not following the religious edicts of a particular religion do not alone make one a decent human being but the practice of many religious policies lead to disqualification for the badge of respectability that can only be earned by acknowledging responsibility for ones own life and the consequences of ones own actions. Such a failure may lead one to seek fulfillment and happiness beyond the grave but neither necessity of belief nor an irrational desire will make eternal life a reality.

[brionon]

Perhaps because we had your religion beaten into us when children. Hate is not a strong enough word.

[naomi24]

Oakleaf, not anger, more frustration. It's difficult to understand why otherwise intelligent people believe supernatural stories and tales of events for which there is no proof, and more to the point, adhere to dogma formulated by men. Of this they do have proof, and yet still they cling to it.

Romeo, why equate atheists with materialism? Why equate philosophy with religion. Have you actually thought about what you've said?

[Romeo]

waldo -mature answers, please
naomi - oh yes.

[naomi24]

Romeo, in that case, perhaps an explanation of your rationale would be helpful.

[Romeo]

naomi - philosophy is any form of human thought, not just materialist thought (i.e. the concept that only matter exists). Religious belief is a form of cosmic metaphysical philosophy (even if particular religions often contain allegorical myths and legends), and many people arrive at beliefs through intellectual reason rather than conversion or a leap of faith. You'd be surprised.

But, naomi, I've been through all this before and frankly I can't be bothered arguing any more. What would be the point? I'm not out to convert anyone or convince anybody of anything. There are plenty of books on the subject but, in the end, people will believe or disbelieve what suits them personally, so let's all just get along, keep an open mind about what life and the universe is all about, and allow each other our own opinions, eh?

[naomi24]

Romeo, thank you for the education, although unnecessary I assure you. You have made sweeping statements, but are clearly reluctant to qualify them. If you think there's no point in discussing your views, why offer them at all? Don't leave us dangling in mid-air, Romeo. Do please give us the benefit of your wisdom.

[Romeo]

Thanks for getting back, naomi. You're an interesting person to talk to. Yes, I suppose I have made sweeping statements, but I have to be brief here.

You know, I've met a lot of people who say they don't believe in God but, when questioned, turn out NOT to be actual atheists. It's just that they don't like the word God because of it's traditional biblical connotations. But I'm quite happy with the term.

As to my own beliefs, I am a Pantheist. God is everything, the holistic universe both known and unknowable. But if some people choose to imagine God as an ancient father figure, or a nature spirit or goddess, then it's right for them, so I let them be. Also, I've no problems with humanists or atheists (after all, I've been there), just so long as they don't go around thinking that religious believers have no right to their beliefs. But I'm not saying you are like that. In fact, I'm sure you're not.

Oakleaf - you asked the original question. What do you think about all this?

[naomi24]

Romeo. thank you for the compliment. However, you have missed the point. You equated atheism with materialism, and I don't understand why you've made that connection.

Incidentally, I'm not an atheist.

[Romeo]

naomi, I mean materialism, not in the commonly used sense of prefering material possesions over spiritual values, but in the philosophical sense, that the universe contains only physical matter and its movements, nothing more. Nothing beyond *material* nature. That would be the atheist's point of view, would it not?

[naomi24]

Romeo, Oh I see. Thanks for clarifying that.

[WaldoMcFroog]

What complete rubbish, Romeo. That's a post hoc definition of the word after being challenged and found wanting. You blatantly used 'materialism' in the non-philosophical sense in your original statement, otherwise your statement makes no sense, since materialism in the philosphical sense does not mean "there is nothing more to life than getting what you can get", as your own stated definition proves

Very mature.

[Oakleaf51]

Well Romeo, you asked what I thought about all of this, and I can tell you that I think what I said is right, that there is an awful lot of heat for people who are religious.

[smiffy65]

such a true statement oakleaf, why cannot evrybody live and let live, there are forces in this world .good and evil, love and hate, just think if there was no evil and no hate in this world would'nt that be wonderful. remember GOD IS LOVE and the DEVIL IS EVIL. think of this