God

[johnnyedge]

Why do people believe in God?, I have spoken to several deeply religious people who have all tried to put their reasons for Gods existance but as yet I can not be won over. However,I do feel that people who believe in a God have more to look forward to in death, myself I belive there is nothing after death, why should there be?. We are born to repopulate the human race, we then do the same, then we die, no different to any other animal on the planet. Why complicate things by trying to give reason to it all, perhaps thats why people need to believe in a God because we find reality a little to simplistic. As for God being the answer to all mankinds problems, how come there are so many wars over religion? Am I missing something in the grand scheme of things?

[Joe_the_Lion]

I certainly believe but am not really "deeply religious".

My reasons for believing is that no matter how much science is thrown at me, I can not and will not accept that everything, and I mean everything, was created by a huge gas explosion billions of years ago.

Yes, I accept the "Big Bang Theory" and evolution etc and the fact EVERY living thing has a carbon structure. This has been proven by science which I totally agree with.

However, and this is a big however. I can not accept that things living within me and every other human being in the world are the result of a gas explosion. How can grief, happiness, jeaslousy, sexual arousal, anger, love and any other emotion be the result of a gas explosion. These "things" are alive, yet have no carbon structure.

Pyschologists and neurologists tell me different. Brain wave (a carbon structured by-product) are "scientifically " measured. They are part of evolution, both phyisical and evolutionary. The very fact us humans feel these emotions are what separate us from other living things.

And yes, I accept this as true, but I can not believe our existence still comes from a ball of firey gas!!!!!

There has to be a "magical" force in the process. A magic that caused the big bang. And a Christian God seems the most plausable.

Further, if the scientists tell us everything is evolutionary explainable, then why did this very own evolution create beliefe sysytems (well before Christianity) to contradict itself. That is not right. Why would something quantifiably explanable, create or "evolve" our carbon-structured by-products in to challenging the "scientific" truth.

Hope that makes sense.

[jno]

ah, you need Pascal's Wager, which is basically that you should believe - just in case: "If you believe, and God exists, you gain everything. If you disbelieve, and God exists, you lose everything."

I don't think Octavius is quite right to say wars aren't fought over religion: the Crusades were, and so were the early Islamic wars of conquest. Doubtless many seized land and got rich, but it's fair to say the driving force was religion. You could say the same of al-Qaeda's war on the west: they don't want to conquer America, they just want to punish non-believers.

[Pippa68]

There might be something in it, you know..

My sister in law is deeply religious. Her and her husband prayed for a dishwasher, and a week later a person at the church was giving one away.

God moves in mysterious ways...;o)

[RATTER15]

My first marriage was in a Church and I was an atheist then!! Why the hell not!!!

A church is a beautiful building, I love the bells, the singing, the whole ceremony!!!

To me it was just a more romantic setting and atmosphere than an office in a council block and if I had to say a few godly words to achieve this then so be it. I don't believe in a God so I didn't have to worry about disrespecting him!!

Marriage didn't last though!! was I cursed lol?
But I did have three great children from it!!

[4getmenot]

yes Oct where they get married is up to them but to put a religion on someone else other than themselves by christening a baby that has no choice in my eyes isnt right. If you want to welcome a baby to the world just have a naming ceremony

[jno]

4getmenot, you teach a child to read, to tie its shoelaces, to be polite... everything it grows up with reflects its parents in some way. Why on earth is it right to pass on everything but religion?

[4getmenot]

they have no choice, reading and all the other things you suggest are things they will always use in life, religion may not be. How many of you that are christened actually go to church and pray and beleive in the bible etc and use it from day to day?

[4getmenot]

If they want to be christened when they are older then fair enough. I look at it the same as children that have their ears pierced when they are babies, Y?

[Pippa68]

If a family is a churchgoer and or religious (they don't always go hand in hand) christening or dedication in church is fair enough.

The christenings I have gone to have been about gifts, the food, the disco etc. 9 out of 10 of the ceremonies have been the product of co habiting non married parents, or non church going/non religious parents.

That totally baffles me!

[Pippa68]

As an aside, I was brought up in a Baptist family. Babies are not baptised..they are dedicated to the church in a ceremony during sunday worship.

When you become a teenager/adult you are baptised. This decision comes from within, but it never came to me.

[andy-hughes]

I married in church, although I am an atheist - because it was important to my wife who is a Catholic. I have no problem with anyone's faith - including my nearest and dearest, who likewise have no problem with my absence of it.

For the same reason, all our children were baptised and raised as Catholics - it's their choice as adults if they wish to continue with faith or not.

I have always believed that belief in a higher prescence without proof is the cornerstone of faith. I also believe that faith is an emotional comfort to people who wish to feel that we are not alone as the highest power in the universe, and that there is something to 'look forward to' - which is the essence of most human religions.

I do not believe, and I find the thought of 'nothing' after death to be acceptable.

I do find I have less of a problem with Christianity than I do with Christians, who often appear to adopt a position of moral superiority which I find offensive - but a wish to share a positive belief is not initself a bad thing - just something to which I don' t subscribe.

[Octavius]

Jno, The Levant has been a war zone for hundreds if not thousands of years. Simply put, it is the point where Western culture (Christendom if you like) meets Eastern culture (Islam etc). The crusades were indeed sanctioned by the Pope and had religious elements in order to rally the troops, as it were. But this was not the main purpose - that was about economical and political power and power particularly over Jerusalem.

If you interpret that solely as a religious war, then one would consider that we are still in it� in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pallestine etc. Are these religious wars too? Or are they wars against terror? Perhaps they are wars against human rights atrocities, or just us bringing Western Democracy and �Freedoms� to the outside world with that �Show of Strength� attitude? Do you believe that current conflicts are not economically and politically motivated? Is it about power over another, or is it all about religion? Can a religious war be one-sided? You are saying that al-Qaeda are fighting a religious war � does this mean that we are fighting a religious war back? Are we therefore the non-believers fighting the believers?

Not disputing any response, just looking for opinions.

[joko]

in the words of john lennon ''whatever gets you through the night, is alright, alright''

its fear, a crutch, brainwashing, comfort and hedging your bets.

comfort and hedging your bets is ok with me, sad, but ok if it makes you feel better, but the other 3 kind of disturb me particularly when they are taken to extremes and forced on others.

guilt is a powerful, but useless emotion, and it is one used a great deal in religion.
it causes people a lot of unnecessary heartache.
the world is full of people with self esteem issues, guilt, worry, fear etc etc, and its all been drilled into them either by their parents or peers, and unfortunately many can never break that mindset, and spend their life generally disheartened and unfulfilled.
most of the bad personality traits can often be traced back to some emotion that is engulfing them, and they are kicking out against it - such as arrogance, nit-picking, smugness, cruelty, bullying etc, all stem from inner issues often bought about by religion, sometime very indirectly.

the sooner religion the abandoned the better, i am just sorry it will probably not be in my lifetime.

[Pippa68]

I saw a great bumper sticker, andy:

'I don't have a problem with Jesus..it's his fans I can't stand!'

[jno]

Octavius, I think the amount of 'power' (as I think you mean it) to be gained from the Crusades was limited. The Pope never did have much power over the Middle East; it was Orthodox/Byzantine territory. And I don't think he gained much more from the initial crusading success. As far as I can see the main point was that Christian holy sites came under Christian control; and that seems to me a religious justification. (I'm not saying there weren't others, but not as important.)

As for both sides being moved by religion - no, I don't think that's necessary. If we're talking about a war 'caused by religion' it requires only that one side see it that way. The side attacked, in the case of the crusades, will simply be trying to hang on to what they have got.

As for today's Middle East upheavals - I don't know. The differences between Israeli and Palestinian are probably cultural and economic more than religious. And as to why we're fighting in Iraq, goodness knows - a bit oil, a bit political ('making them democratic'), a bit familial (in Bush's case) - but given that the result is to make Muslims everywhere annoyed, I guess there is a religious dimension too. Bush originally talked of a crusade against al-Qaeda, and that didn't much please otherwise moderate Muslims.

[sophie_1003]

I wasn't Christened as my parents aren't religious but my Grandma hates it and often uses the argument "Well you don't have to be a Christian to be christened" but then whats the point?? She also mentioned that I might not be able to get married in a church as I haven't been christened, again I said whats the point? I agree that churches are beautiful buildings but at all the church weddings I have been to there is communal prayer 'forgive us of our sins' etc, I don't believe I have 'sinned' so why pray for forgiveness? Also, I believe prayers should be an individual thing, rather than everyone bleating like a herd of sheep. However, this does not stop me going to church weddings or christenings because it's a lovely opportunity to reunite with friends and family I don't see often!

[Oakleaf51]

A lot of people a deeply offended by religion, and the context suggests the Christian religion. But Christianity has been on the wane for many years, and atheism on the rise. So, our society reflects more and more atheist values. But, the question has to be asked, are we living in a better world now, with Christianity falling away?
I don't think that we are. I think that atheists have got their way and everything is worser.

[brionon]

I think,because they want to so very much. I can find no other explaination for intelligent people to believe.

[joko]

''everything is worser''??

so when exactly were things better when ruled by the iron fist of god?

burning of witches? puritans? the magdalene sisters?

the list could go on and on....

[sophie_1003]

Atheists are people who aren't religious, and, unlike many religions they don't often try to convert people by e.g.) going round their neighbourhood preaching on peoples dorrsteps, or not in my experience; so Atheists have not really "got their way" there are just more people who have become disenchanted with religion.