Is there any point debating religion, really?

[styley]

I've posted and read a lot of posts relating to the topic of religion, all the for's and all the agins, and I put it to you is there any point debating it? I have my view and you have yours and the chance of either of us changing each others view is pretty slim, so let us all agree to disagree and talk of other things. That being said, I'm right and you're wrong(joking). Any thoughts?

[naomi24]

Catron, their reasons for having faith is not a mystery to me. Perhaps surprisingly, I do 'get it'.

[Catron]

No naomi24, sorry but you do not get it - you may think you do but what you actually think you understand, is just the normal anti-religion stance of many. I have read your responses to those who have a faith many many times and you have proved over and over again that belief in any religion is completely outside your comprehension.

If you want proof of this, it is in another of the threads that you have posted on this morning - Jesus was just a man. Not to Christians he wasn't (and isn't) - Jesus is the WHOLE reason for their faith - their life, the reason they exist. If you really understood that (and why) you would not consistently argue against all those who say they have a Christian faith.

[LoftyLottie]

I have given up on this section since it became apparent that those who 'believe' invariably quote passages from the Bible as 'proof' . I am not a religious person and think that 'religion' is the root cause of most of the problems on this earth.

[naomi24]

Catron, you seem to think you know a lot about me, but one thing you clearly don't know is that I was once a 'Christian' - so you see, I really do 'get it'.

[Catron]

Sorry naomi24 but again I say it - you do not understand - there was clearly some reason why you 'lost' your faith - at that point the reasons why others who have gone through the same things you have and stayed with their faith became something you could not understand - if those reasons had made sense to you, you would still have your faith now.

[Quinlad]

Were you, naomi? Really?

[naomi24]

Catron, that's clearly nonsense. How can someone who has seen an issue from both sides be less aware than those who see only one? Incidentally, I changed my views when, rather than continue to blindly believe what others told me, I began to study, to learn for myself, and to formulate from the evidence before me, my own opinions - and it was quite a revelation!

[naomi24]

Yes, Quinlad, I was - for many years.

[Quinlad]

"How can someone who has seen an issue from both sides be less aware than those who see only one?"

Ah. I see what you're trying to do.

[keyplus90]

According to my limited knowledge, people are loosing faith in their Religion (whatever Religion) they believe in only because they are not fully aware of their religion, and if they are, they are not acting upon it 100%. Or at least they are not even trying to do that.

When you manipulate Religious teachings according to your likes and dislikes thinking we can decide better than the one who created us. Then in the short run all looks well & good but consequences show afterwards. In my experience around about 25 to 30 years earliest in most of the cases.

I will just give one example here that no Religion (the scriptures of the Religions) in the world says worship more than one God. Still there are many people from those Religions who believe in it in practical life.

[Catron]

Once again you prove my point, naomi24. You lose your faith because others told you what to do? Yet you do not believe in the Jesus of the Bible now, even if you once did. You do not understand that this is impossible for a Christian - the Jesus of the Bible is THE central tenet to Christianity and without such belief nobody can be a Christian. I am sorry but you have not proved that you understand that once you really meet the Jesus of the Bible, you can never ever go back to believing he is just a man.

[WaldoMcFroog]

Ah, the 'No true scotsman' fallacy...

[naomi24]

Catron, I haven't proven your point at all. You're so eager to pounce, that you haven't taken the trouble to read and understand what I said. I didn't lose faith because others told me what to do - I lost faith when I stopped listening to others and started to think for myself.

A bit of light reading for you:

http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Society-and-Cul ture/Religion-and-Spirituality/Question493741. html

[keyplus90]

Catron - On this point I am with you. Although I am not Christian (By Faith) but I believe in Jesus. I believe that he was one of the mightiest messengers of God, I believe he cured people from blindness and leprosy, I believe in his Miraculous Birth without any human intervention, I believe he was a Messiah, I believe he spoke to people soon after he was born, I believe that he made birds out of clay and birds became real when he blew on them.

[WaldoMcFroog]

Keyplus, would it be possible for you to repeat your above post before everything you write in future? I think it would greatly clarify matters.

[Quinlad]

I'm quite sure you were, naomi.

Of course, a cynic might view that as a neat attempt to invest more weight in your argument - in the same way that you might describe (have described?) yourself as a former Labour voter or a once-upon-a-time defender of Islam.

It grabs the intellectual high ground by presenting you as someone who sees both sides and understands the whole spectrum of the argument, rather than having fixed, entrenched views.

It also encourages those who are religious/Labour voters/supporters of Islam to wonder what you've seen to make the scales fall from your eyes that they're missing.

As I'm not a cynic, I've no doubt you're not doing that at all.

[Catron]

We can go over this and over this ad infinitum naomi24 but you have had Christians say time and time again that once you have met the Jesus of the Bible you would never go back to calling him just a man - you do not understand this so you take issue with me over a minor issue - you can pretend all you like to me and even yourself if you wish but no real Christian would ever go back to saying Jesus is just a man.

I say you were never a Christian, which is why you argue so vehemently against anybody with a religious faith - and you say you were; can you prove that?

[naomi24]

Catron, Pretend? Why on earth would I pretend? Now you really are talking nonsense. Did you go into the link I gave you?

Incidentally, I don't know if you've noticed, but you're debating religion. Oops. Easily done, isn't it?

Quinlad, It might be an attempt to invest more weight in my argument - but it's not. I don't tell lies, and neither do I present a 'front'. I simply state my beliefs. So pleased to hear you're not a cynic though - heaven forbid! :o)

Waldo, good idea. (No need to do it for me personally, you understand, for it might be useful for others).

[keyplus90]

This is to fulfill Waldo�s Desire, I am repeating my words.

Catron - On this point I am with you. Although I am not Christian (By Faith) but I believe in Jesus. I believe that he was one of the mightiest messengers of God, I believe he cured people from blindness and leprosy, I believe in his Miraculous Birth without any human intervention, I believe he was a Messiah, I believe he spoke to people soon after he was born, I believe that he made birds out of clay and birds became real when he blew on them.

After this I would say that Naomi made the same mistake as a good number of people do. And I have already said (above) that only those people have doubt in Religions who do not follow their Religion properly. There are other possibilities and people will question that which Religion is Right. I would say just follow the scriptures of your Religion and you will find out. But if you will try to follow people then you will go astray as few here already have gone.

[Catron]

You tell me naomi24, why are you pretending? I say it is to give more weight to your arguments against Christianity.

Tell us the story of your conversion to Christianity and prove me wrong.