ChatterBank7 mins ago
A Sacred Foetus?
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To paraphrase Dawkins if I may, is it right that we give less importance to a thinking feeling chimpanzee than to a foetus that has the [mental capacity] of a worm, but the potential to grow into a human being?
Personally, I disagree with Dawkins, and hold that all human life is far more valuable than animal life.
Should the word, "sacred," be used here?
Thank you.
Personally, I disagree with Dawkins, and hold that all human life is far more valuable than animal life.
Should the word, "sacred," be used here?
Thank you.
Answers
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Yes, I realise that. But the issue is whether or not the foetus has intrinsic value in and of itself.
I believe that it does, in the same way that I have to fight my kneejerk reaction on the question of capital punishment, for the simple reason that after due consideration, again, "I believe," the taking of human life in such a cold calculated way is wrong.
I believe that it does, in the same way that I have to fight my kneejerk reaction on the question of capital punishment, for the simple reason that after due consideration, again, "I believe," the taking of human life in such a cold calculated way is wrong.
How could a foetus have an intrinsic value in and of itself? Come to think of it: what does that expression "Intrinsic value" actually mean?
Why do you believe that capital punishment is wrong? Because it's taken in a cold calculated way? Would it be ok in a war environment? Where did the 'intrinsic value' go?
Why do you believe that capital punishment is wrong? Because it's taken in a cold calculated way? Would it be ok in a war environment? Where did the 'intrinsic value' go?
Yes, but you asked how a secular person could make the decision.
The answer is that it's on the basis of fetal viability.
There has to be, as you mention, a cut off somewhere. Lots of things have such issues associated with them.
Do you believe that someone of 15 years 364 days is incapable of being responsible about sex, yet come the stroke of midnight, suddenly is? Of course you don't.
Is someone sixteen years 364 days incapbable of driving a car responsibly, yet come the stroke of midnight... No, again, of course you don't.
Is someone age seventeen years 364 days incapable of understanding the political views of candidates in an election, yet come the stroke etc etc No.
We have lots of arbitrary cut off dates. Why is this one different?
The answer is that it's on the basis of fetal viability.
There has to be, as you mention, a cut off somewhere. Lots of things have such issues associated with them.
Do you believe that someone of 15 years 364 days is incapable of being responsible about sex, yet come the stroke of midnight, suddenly is? Of course you don't.
Is someone sixteen years 364 days incapbable of driving a car responsibly, yet come the stroke of midnight... No, again, of course you don't.
Is someone age seventeen years 364 days incapable of understanding the political views of candidates in an election, yet come the stroke etc etc No.
We have lots of arbitrary cut off dates. Why is this one different?
The arbitary cut off points are necessary in all of the instances you mentioned, but when it comes to a decision about human life, I think it is too cavalier to allow one foetus to live, and another to die for the sake of 24 hours.
Regarding the question of value, what I am asking is quite simply, does human life only have value, where that value is attributed to it by a second or third party, or by society generally.
The Nazi party saw no value in some ethnic and minority groups, yet, they were clearly wrong so how are we different if we impose value to life on a sliding scale of usefulness?
Regarding the question of value, what I am asking is quite simply, does human life only have value, where that value is attributed to it by a second or third party, or by society generally.
The Nazi party saw no value in some ethnic and minority groups, yet, they were clearly wrong so how are we different if we impose value to life on a sliding scale of usefulness?
Euthenasia is a whole new area for discussion, but apart from deliberate consensual ending of life to prevent suffering as in the case of terminal illness, it has been used, as you well know, by Hitlers henchmen to purify the master race.
Anything that could encourage that scenario is obviously dangerous.
Anything that could encourage that scenario is obviously dangerous.
Theland, You have some nerve sticking your nose, (or any other appendage for that matter), unsolicited, up some strange woman�s birth canal. If you truly wish to contribute to the betterment of human kind there are plenty of children already born who�s mother�s would welcome and truly appreciate your kindly assistance. Mind your manners.
If it is the moral implications of abortion which interests you, you are wise to begin with an investigation into the objective basis of morality. Morality stems from choice and requires that one have the knowledge, ability, freedom, and wisdom to make the right choice. The choice to bring another human being into the world and provide them with the love and skills required to achieve their own independence and moral virtue is not one that can be properly determined by virtue of pregnancy alone.
It is not that we exist but who we are and the quality of human existence which brings to it the possibility of dignity. If only Hitler had been aborted . . . at any point in his life!
If it is the moral implications of abortion which interests you, you are wise to begin with an investigation into the objective basis of morality. Morality stems from choice and requires that one have the knowledge, ability, freedom, and wisdom to make the right choice. The choice to bring another human being into the world and provide them with the love and skills required to achieve their own independence and moral virtue is not one that can be properly determined by virtue of pregnancy alone.
It is not that we exist but who we are and the quality of human existence which brings to it the possibility of dignity. If only Hitler had been aborted . . . at any point in his life!
If only Hitler had been aborted ........
Yes, well, we are introducing a new dimension here, the addition of foresight, which is simply lamenting the fact that when Hitler was around, we were all simply limited to our five senses, and wouldn't it have been grand if we had had six?
Stalin, Idi Amin, Robert Mugabe, Mohammed, and several celebs would all have served the planet better by being vaccumed from the womb.
Yes, well, we are introducing a new dimension here, the addition of foresight, which is simply lamenting the fact that when Hitler was around, we were all simply limited to our five senses, and wouldn't it have been grand if we had had six?
Stalin, Idi Amin, Robert Mugabe, Mohammed, and several celebs would all have served the planet better by being vaccumed from the womb.
"Anything that compromises the dignity and sanctity of human life is a danger to us all, no matter how miniscule the threat."
And yet you then state that it would be okay to kill Hitler in the womb, thus proving that, like the rest of us, you recognise that there is no inherant value other than what we give it.
As I said, if your God existed and had a problem with Hitler being born, he could have stopped it, but did not. You apparently know better than God.
And yet you then state that it would be okay to kill Hitler in the womb, thus proving that, like the rest of us, you recognise that there is no inherant value other than what we give it.
As I said, if your God existed and had a problem with Hitler being born, he could have stopped it, but did not. You apparently know better than God.
Well, I think I feel pretty important..................:o)
Any foetus is an incredible 'accident' of biology with fantastical odds against, apparently.........(Professor Robert Winston can give all the stats, etc. on this).....
As the act that causes pregnancy has been pretty much divorced from the consequences, any resulting pregnancy can be either a blessing or a burden........
It is not possible to be 'a little bit pregnant' and there is a time-limited window for decisions to be made. I believe, utterly, that a woman has a right to choose. However, I;m afraid I do bridle at women who have multiple abortions and use it as some sort of apres contraception (but I think that has more to do with the workings of my mind than any position I do or don't hold).
I fail to see where and why religion should poke its unwelcome and intrusive nose into this intensely personal and private situation. I regard the argument that every life 'created' affects everyone else in Society as a fatuous attempt to justify draconian laws which only affect (to their detriment) one half of the population.
There is no such thing as a Sacred Foetus in any sort of relgious sense, however, each wanted and anticipated foetus is 'sacred' to its creators and their immediate relations.
Any foetus is an incredible 'accident' of biology with fantastical odds against, apparently.........(Professor Robert Winston can give all the stats, etc. on this).....
As the act that causes pregnancy has been pretty much divorced from the consequences, any resulting pregnancy can be either a blessing or a burden........
It is not possible to be 'a little bit pregnant' and there is a time-limited window for decisions to be made. I believe, utterly, that a woman has a right to choose. However, I;m afraid I do bridle at women who have multiple abortions and use it as some sort of apres contraception (but I think that has more to do with the workings of my mind than any position I do or don't hold).
I fail to see where and why religion should poke its unwelcome and intrusive nose into this intensely personal and private situation. I regard the argument that every life 'created' affects everyone else in Society as a fatuous attempt to justify draconian laws which only affect (to their detriment) one half of the population.
There is no such thing as a Sacred Foetus in any sort of relgious sense, however, each wanted and anticipated foetus is 'sacred' to its creators and their immediate relations.
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