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Curious Christian
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I am a devout Christian. I believe the Bible is the infallible, inerrant Word of God. I believe in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Saviour. I don't think I have ever met a true athiest. I am curious as to how you think, what do you believe will happen when you die? Where do you think the beauty that bestows us each and every day with the sunrise to the sunset came from?
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I respect each persons God as that is their identity. My God is my ID who I give thanx to for each day. I dont delve deeply in religious books & teachings as have learned enuf of various faiths thru my long life around the world and found them to be used by mortal theologeans to control ppls hearts & minds.
The sunrise & sunset are from evolution and are wondrous because their make-up is beyond me and you. When I die those who know me may remember me fondly or not. But I will have served mankind to the best of my ability.
The sunrise & sunset are from evolution and are wondrous because their make-up is beyond me and you. When I die those who know me may remember me fondly or not. But I will have served mankind to the best of my ability.
1) Issue of death certificate
2) Post Mortem (if required)
3) Body given to medical science to do whatever they please with.
4) Family hold some sort of memorial, (depending on what I was doing when I died, I expect).
5) Thrown into a furnace or a deep freeze over a period of time.
This may give you a more general view: http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2008/fe b/16/healthandwellbeing.weekend2
I'm curious to know what beauty you're talking about. I have a pretty nice life and the luxury of a good job that allows me plenty of leisure time to notice beauty.
Where do you think the ugliness that blights the lives of so many from sunrise to sunset comes from? Why won't you ascribe that to the same source as beauty?
2) Post Mortem (if required)
3) Body given to medical science to do whatever they please with.
4) Family hold some sort of memorial, (depending on what I was doing when I died, I expect).
5) Thrown into a furnace or a deep freeze over a period of time.
This may give you a more general view: http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2008/fe b/16/healthandwellbeing.weekend2
I'm curious to know what beauty you're talking about. I have a pretty nice life and the luxury of a good job that allows me plenty of leisure time to notice beauty.
Where do you think the ugliness that blights the lives of so many from sunrise to sunset comes from? Why won't you ascribe that to the same source as beauty?
Firstly the historical accuracy of some of the answers to the question below regarding the death of Jesus would strongly suggest that the bible is not infallible.
As far as death goes, I believe the soul is an energy force within us that remains after death, but it doesn't depend upon belief in a God to enable it to do that, and neither does if waft off to any kind of heaven or hell to be overseen by supernatural entities representing good and evil. It is just another aspect of nature - and nature is just that - natural - it is not supernatural.
If we're talking about magnificent sunsets, then yes, nature can be very beautiful. However, if we remove our rose tinted blinkers and look at nature at its most destructive, for example tsunamis, earthquakes and famine, then it is powerfully ugly, and terrifyingly hostile. I would therefore second Waldo's question and ask if you attribute the ugliness and devastation in the world to the same source?
As far as death goes, I believe the soul is an energy force within us that remains after death, but it doesn't depend upon belief in a God to enable it to do that, and neither does if waft off to any kind of heaven or hell to be overseen by supernatural entities representing good and evil. It is just another aspect of nature - and nature is just that - natural - it is not supernatural.
If we're talking about magnificent sunsets, then yes, nature can be very beautiful. However, if we remove our rose tinted blinkers and look at nature at its most destructive, for example tsunamis, earthquakes and famine, then it is powerfully ugly, and terrifyingly hostile. I would therefore second Waldo's question and ask if you attribute the ugliness and devastation in the world to the same source?
That's nice.
I don't think I ever actually met someone who thought everything in the Bible was literally true.
To put it in simple terms - when you die it is simply as it was before you were born - there is no life before birth why should there be life after death?
Beauty is not a concept that can be answered so easily though. I believe to some extent it's inately wired in our brain and is to some extent learned.
Anyone who's taken their 10 year old kids to a beautiful mountain area to have them say "yeah" "nice" and play on their gameboys will know what I mean.
I do have a question for you.
Do you think the power of prayer is more powerful than that of scientific medecine and if so do you/would you ever go to a doctor?
I don't think I ever actually met someone who thought everything in the Bible was literally true.
To put it in simple terms - when you die it is simply as it was before you were born - there is no life before birth why should there be life after death?
Beauty is not a concept that can be answered so easily though. I believe to some extent it's inately wired in our brain and is to some extent learned.
Anyone who's taken their 10 year old kids to a beautiful mountain area to have them say "yeah" "nice" and play on their gameboys will know what I mean.
I do have a question for you.
Do you think the power of prayer is more powerful than that of scientific medecine and if so do you/would you ever go to a doctor?
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USALady, how do you know you have never met a true atheist? Do you ask everyone you meet about their religious beliefs?
Only a year ago I discovered that two close friends of mine whom I have known for over 30 years are atheists like me. We were all astonished, but then realised that it was merely a subject that had never come up before.
Regarding the Bible, do you really believe that the earth existed at least three days before the rest of the universe as Genesis tells you, and that it was possible to have evenings and mornings on the days before the sun and the other stars were created?
And which of the two contradictory nativity stories do you believe? If you believe �Luke� you can�t believe �Matthew� and vice versa.
Do you agree that naughty children should be beaten with a rod (Proverbs 13:24, 20:30 and 23:13-14) and that if they answer back they should be killed (Ex 21:15, Lev 20: 9, Deut 21:18, Mk 7:9 and Mt 15:4? Do you agree that whole cities of people who do not believe in your God should be destroyed down to the last child and animal (Deut 13:6)? How about slavery, as advocated in Lev 25:44, and selling your daughters into sexual slavery as approved in Ex 21:7?
There much more of such shocking stuff in your God�s book, and it�s no good saying that Jesus changed all that. Slavery is approved in Eph 6:5 and 1Tim 6:1. and Jesus himself endorses all of such laws and says that not one iota or jot of OT law shall pass away (Mt 5:18).
If I met your God in the street I would call the police and have him arrested for crimes against humanity. But the fact that he doesn�t exist means that I don�t have to get angry with him, just appalled that people should worship such a monster.
The rest of your post is answered admirably by naomi, Waldo and jake. wiz is hi usual straightforward self. Over to you.
Only a year ago I discovered that two close friends of mine whom I have known for over 30 years are atheists like me. We were all astonished, but then realised that it was merely a subject that had never come up before.
Regarding the Bible, do you really believe that the earth existed at least three days before the rest of the universe as Genesis tells you, and that it was possible to have evenings and mornings on the days before the sun and the other stars were created?
And which of the two contradictory nativity stories do you believe? If you believe �Luke� you can�t believe �Matthew� and vice versa.
Do you agree that naughty children should be beaten with a rod (Proverbs 13:24, 20:30 and 23:13-14) and that if they answer back they should be killed (Ex 21:15, Lev 20: 9, Deut 21:18, Mk 7:9 and Mt 15:4? Do you agree that whole cities of people who do not believe in your God should be destroyed down to the last child and animal (Deut 13:6)? How about slavery, as advocated in Lev 25:44, and selling your daughters into sexual slavery as approved in Ex 21:7?
There much more of such shocking stuff in your God�s book, and it�s no good saying that Jesus changed all that. Slavery is approved in Eph 6:5 and 1Tim 6:1. and Jesus himself endorses all of such laws and says that not one iota or jot of OT law shall pass away (Mt 5:18).
If I met your God in the street I would call the police and have him arrested for crimes against humanity. But the fact that he doesn�t exist means that I don�t have to get angry with him, just appalled that people should worship such a monster.
The rest of your post is answered admirably by naomi, Waldo and jake. wiz is hi usual straightforward self. Over to you.
Hi USALady
Hope these posts do not shake your faith, although I doubt they will. The thing is, the bible was written in its time by men of its time. Although I have faith, I know that the Bible is man made. The word of God is interpreted by man. All religion is man made. But faith is felt. I find most of the Bible very comforting, and find comfort in my faith, but much of what is written in the bible is horrendous, callous and harmful in todays society. A rigid acceptance of all that is written and the way it is interpreted is not helpful and alienates a lot of people.
Hope these posts do not shake your faith, although I doubt they will. The thing is, the bible was written in its time by men of its time. Although I have faith, I know that the Bible is man made. The word of God is interpreted by man. All religion is man made. But faith is felt. I find most of the Bible very comforting, and find comfort in my faith, but much of what is written in the bible is horrendous, callous and harmful in todays society. A rigid acceptance of all that is written and the way it is interpreted is not helpful and alienates a lot of people.
It is very simple and practical. If you say you love Jesus (pbuh) then believe in Islam. Because that is where you would find more about Jesus, his mother and his teachings. And then no one would ever ask you about which bible do you believe in, as Quran is same word to word, wherever you go in the world.
�If you are a good Christian then you are a Muslim�.
These are not my words. Some one else is saying that. Right at the bottom.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Eubank
�If you are a good Christian then you are a Muslim�.
These are not my words. Some one else is saying that. Right at the bottom.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Eubank
To Jake-the-Peg: Yes I do believe in scientific medicine and do go to the doctor. I believe God gave man the wisdom to be the scientists, chemists, physicians etc. You may ask... if God is omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent why pray? Because that is our way of communicating with God and giving Him praise & the desires of our heart.
I think USALady might be still in bed Anna!
I think you'll find no end of athiests over this side of the pond.
It is quite remarkable how religious America is compared with how secular most of Europe is.
In the UK about 6% are church goers and that number has been falling like a rock over 30% down in the last 20 years.
41% Of Americans are.
This is especially interesting when you consider the strong humanist beginings of the US.
George Washington was rarely in church and never took communion. Thomas Paine was accused of atheism (probably correctly), Benjamin Franklin, Abraham Lincoln, Thomas Jefferson all spoke out against religion and Christianity in particular.
When you consider how unlikely it is for an atheist to be elected President today one's forced to conclude that somewhere, somehow America lost it's way
I think you'll find no end of athiests over this side of the pond.
It is quite remarkable how religious America is compared with how secular most of Europe is.
In the UK about 6% are church goers and that number has been falling like a rock over 30% down in the last 20 years.
41% Of Americans are.
This is especially interesting when you consider the strong humanist beginings of the US.
George Washington was rarely in church and never took communion. Thomas Paine was accused of atheism (probably correctly), Benjamin Franklin, Abraham Lincoln, Thomas Jefferson all spoke out against religion and Christianity in particular.
When you consider how unlikely it is for an atheist to be elected President today one's forced to conclude that somewhere, somehow America lost it's way
I'm an atheist after years of being brought up in a catholic household. I now believe there is no god, just as firmly as some people believe there is one. I don't believe God gives us anything, i think we are all masters of our own destiny, and should be held responsible for our own successes and failiures.
I hope this doesn't offend you, USALady, or any other Christians out there. I have nothing but respect for people who can put so much faith in something for which there seems little proof. I believe that the bible was written to try and explain the things which we now understand because of science. To put it bluntly, people didn't know any better then, and we do now. It would be nice to believe there is a god out there who loves us, and that when we die we will go onto something better, i can see how that brings people great comfort, but i just can't buy into it. I've tried, believe me.
I hope this doesn't offend you, USALady, or any other Christians out there. I have nothing but respect for people who can put so much faith in something for which there seems little proof. I believe that the bible was written to try and explain the things which we now understand because of science. To put it bluntly, people didn't know any better then, and we do now. It would be nice to believe there is a god out there who loves us, and that when we die we will go onto something better, i can see how that brings people great comfort, but i just can't buy into it. I've tried, believe me.
When I die the world will go on turning, the sun will still shine and most people in this world won't give a tinkers curse I'm no longer here. My friends and family will miss me and if I have children then they'll keep my memory alive for a generation or two until I become another curious face in the photo albums to be asked who I am.
I don't think God has anything to do with the beauty of nature as I don't believe in God and organised religion in my experience generates a lot of ugliness as it's subjective to mans whims and will.
I don't think God has anything to do with the beauty of nature as I don't believe in God and organised religion in my experience generates a lot of ugliness as it's subjective to mans whims and will.
