Does Faith equal Ignorance?

[MWB]

The put down of intelligence and use of the mind in any way is so woven throughout the New Testament that one must finally conclude that people should strive to be stupid and unquestioning, and that those who are not are doomed.

"For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent." I Cor 1:19

"It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe." I Cor 1:21

Plagiarised from a "Doubting Thomas" website. I'm sure they won't mind.

[Davethedog]

Haha - I am not intolerant I just don't believe in god however as it cannot be proved that he does exist I am willing to accept that in theory it he/she/it may exist.

Before you say I am agnostic, I am not, I want proof but I am fully aware that man has not reached the boundaries of his knowledge and to think that he has is limiting to all.

Intolerance, which I don't belive I am is not the same as bigotry in that I have always accepted that if people, debate or argue they do so in the belief that they are right. Likewise I resereve the right to argue my corner.

The point that I was/am making is this I am open minded to all faiths and religions as I think they are all based on a false premise. I do this because there is no proof but I am quite willing to accept that it is open ende.

However not only does a follower of religion believe in a God in blind faith, they believe that thier way of worshipinf said god is the only way and no argument will change that.

Ipso facto this by definition is bigotry.

And culture is not religion and i haven't mentioned culture. so yet again you choose to misconstrue what I have said to try and support your own argument.

[Octavius]

Not entirely, a lot of religion is based on cultural practices and vice versa. Islam is very much the culture of the Middle East, and much of the culture is based around Islam and its doctrines. Similarly Dreamtime, forms much of the culture and practices of Aboriginees, etc etc. I do not declare them to be mutually reliant as a fact, merely recognising the connection.

I am not calling you a bigot Dave. Nor do I particularly consider you intolerant. However, as a Catholic, you are labelling me an intolerant bigot, regardless of my views, opinions and expressions towards others.

[Davethedog]

Octavius - I truely don't mean to be insulting.

But the point is nothing I could ever say or do can move you from your point of view not only that your religion (or followers of) has committed extreme violence in support of it. You may be a tolerant man in many (or all other) respects but in terms of your religion you cannot be.

This is the point I was making.

Yest again we have to agree to disagree.

[naomi24]

Octavius, Thank you for your words of wisdom, but I can assure you, you needn't have troubled. I do know a little about Islam. You seem to have forgotten that this question is about ignorance in faith, and that is precisely what I'm addressing. You belong neither to Keyplus's 'club', nor to mine, and whilst you appear to object to others offering their opinions, you, nevertheless, feel perfectly justified in offering yours, whatever 'club' the question revolves around. Following your criteria, if all of us, except you, restrict our comments solely to our own 'clubs', it will be RIP Answerbank.

Incidentally, a bigot is also a person who is intolerant of the opposite sex.

[Octavius]

Naomi, you seem to be spending a lot of time lately trying to denigrate my posts but if that keeps you happy then so be it. You are venturing into the realms of misogyny, misandry and misanthropy, do you need any more custard pies to throw at keyplus? I am as akin to keyplus� club as you are to the anti-theist club. Go figure.

It doesn�t matter Dave, I am not insulted and am content to agree to disagree.

I do consider though that I can lead a spiritual and faithful life in my religion whilst recognising the freedoms and rights of every individual in and out of that faith with due respect.

I don�t laugh at pagans (ok, the odd pop at tree huggers, but nothing acrimonious), I respect the right to other beliefs and despite what historians may tell us I am not anti-Semitic. I also respect and acknowledge atheist beliefs, plus far more in between, although this deference does not extend towards violence, aggression and hatred espoused by individuals or groups under the banner of religion or otherwise. Yes, strictly speaking this might be incongruent with absolute Catholicism, but we all have our differences and personal freedoms to act in accordance with our conscience, especially over issues like homosexuality, contraception and dogmatic intolerance towards people following their own beliefs and moral conscience. I don't actually believe that living a life in religion is the only true path towards moral integrity, nor do I believe it onjly leads to immoral integrity.

Now if all that makes me ignorant, we are back where we started.

[Lonnie]

Religion, thats Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and many others, come under the banner of 'Organised Religion'.

Religion is a way for the Few to control the Many.

You've only got to look around the world to see how true that is,

[Davethedog]

Never called you ignorant, 'cos your not.

[Octavius]

I know Dave, just pertaining to the original Q.

[WaldoMcFroog]

Of course, Octavius isn't really a proper Christian if you ask someone like Theland...

[Octavius]

Oh I think there are a fair few people - even atheists - who would say that I aint a proper Christian in the strictest sense.

But I can live with that.

[naomi24]

Octavius, If you weren't so determined to be consistently awkward, perhaps you wouldn't feel that your posts are being denigrated. Make no mistake - if they're addressed to me, then I will respond, but I have no need to try to denigrate them - you manage that perfectly well without my help. You go figure.

[Octavius]

Jolly good.

[naomi24]

Ah, yes - as original as always. :o)

[Octavius]

If you say so.

[Colmc54]

Faith implies acceptance of a fixed belief which once established effectively closes the mind to any alternative. This fixed state of the mind is shared by idealists in general whether religious or political.

I believe I have learned more in my life by having an open, not closed mind. Not believing in anything has been for me an endless fascinating journey that I hope will continue as long as I live.

Nonetheless I think the question is harsh.