ChatterBank1 min ago
A New Thread For Scaredy Cats And Other Guests.
51 Answers
So, to save popping from one thread to the other, by special request from Mibs, let's continue on this one, where blurring is not only allowed but encouraged.
And no stars are given.
And no stars are given.
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Since this appears to be an overflow from a previous thread, here goes:
Theland, what eye-witnesses 'would have been still around' in AD60? We have nothing at all from any eye-witness of anything Jesus said or did, nor are any quoted by Paul or the gospel authors. The expression 'would have been' is meaningless, being mere speculation.
I don't know where you got the idea that the author of Mark was an eye-witness; since we don't know who he was, and he doesn't write as such, that is just invention.
I often wonder whther the mis-information so often given out by Christians about their own religion is due to ignorance or dishonesty. Neither is a credit to them.
Theland, what eye-witnesses 'would have been still around' in AD60? We have nothing at all from any eye-witness of anything Jesus said or did, nor are any quoted by Paul or the gospel authors. The expression 'would have been' is meaningless, being mere speculation.
I don't know where you got the idea that the author of Mark was an eye-witness; since we don't know who he was, and he doesn't write as such, that is just invention.
I often wonder whther the mis-information so often given out by Christians about their own religion is due to ignorance or dishonesty. Neither is a credit to them.
Waldo - at the moment there is a choice to take an oath on a holy book of your choice, or you can choose to affirm instead without any religious connotation.
Stopping people taking oath on a holy book would remove the choice for those that wished to take their oath on such a book. I would support the ability for an individual to choose, but perhaps include something like �if subsequent to my evidence I am found guilty of providing false statement, then I understand that I will be liable to the court for judicial proceedings against me�.
In reality, if someone is going to lie in court, the form of oath won�t matter much to them but the implications of perjury might if they understand what they are.
Stopping people taking oath on a holy book would remove the choice for those that wished to take their oath on such a book. I would support the ability for an individual to choose, but perhaps include something like �if subsequent to my evidence I am found guilty of providing false statement, then I understand that I will be liable to the court for judicial proceedings against me�.
In reality, if someone is going to lie in court, the form of oath won�t matter much to them but the implications of perjury might if they understand what they are.
Theland - you always use the 'prophecy' of the Jews and Israel as an example to support your claims of prophecies reavealed and fulfilled; however, is is the only example you ever give.
Please could you give instances of others.........without having recourse to asking me if I don't find that one to be enough...?
Please could you give instances of others.........without having recourse to asking me if I don't find that one to be enough...?
Waldo -- Octavius couldn't have said it better. I admit that I didn't think it through, but to have the witness actually provide the rope to hang himself in future if he/she perjures him/herself, seems to me a pretty good idea.
I would add, that if somebody asked to swear on the holy book of their choice, that should not absolve them from making the statement.
Good one Octavius.
I would add, that if somebody asked to swear on the holy book of their choice, that should not absolve them from making the statement.
Good one Octavius.
Octavius - Yes, I missed an opportunity to put a large chunk of meat on the hook and attract the sharks from wide and far. Such a title for a thread would have had Mr & Mrs Smartypants from Acacia Crescent choking on their corn flakes, and trampling on the cat in their rush to get to the laptop and give that pesky upstart Christian a large piece of their mind!
But maybe the gentler tone o the title may attract a few Angel fish, (or scaredy Catfish!)
But maybe the gentler tone o the title may attract a few Angel fish, (or scaredy Catfish!)
Monkeyeyes - (Monk for short), time is of the essence and these conversations often require more explanation than is possible here. That is not a get out clause, as I also appreciate that somebody supporting abiogenesis for example, is not going to spend the day researching scientific papers just so they can **** a snook at yours truly.
However, I respectfully take your point and will endeavour to comply with your wishes.
However, I respectfully take your point and will endeavour to comply with your wishes.
Monk - Tony Pearce runs this web site which may answer some of your questions.
I grant you that hurling web sites at each other is not good conversation. Yet my views are obviously affected by everything I have read, whether in books or on the net, as well as looking at contemporary events in parallel with the Bible.
To this end I have made it my business to learn a little about the modern history of Israel from about 1890 up to the present, and it forms a wonderful backdrop to those claims in the Bible regarding the ingathering of the Jews from the four corners of the world.
Also, the Bible is a Jewish book, written by Jews, for Jews, and certain nuances of their grammar and culture are unclear unless somebody like James Jacob Prasch who is a Jew and a Christian, can enlighten modern day Christians and bring new meaning to what sometimes can be obscure verses.
So, my beliefs are therefore the sum total of all that I have read and learned and experienced from having faith in Jesus Christ.
I just know this will not satisfy you, but I try.
To this end I have made it my business to learn a little about the modern history of Israel from about 1890 up to the present, and it forms a wonderful backdrop to those claims in the Bible regarding the ingathering of the Jews from the four corners of the world.
Also, the Bible is a Jewish book, written by Jews, for Jews, and certain nuances of their grammar and culture are unclear unless somebody like James Jacob Prasch who is a Jew and a Christian, can enlighten modern day Christians and bring new meaning to what sometimes can be obscure verses.
So, my beliefs are therefore the sum total of all that I have read and learned and experienced from having faith in Jesus Christ.
I just know this will not satisfy you, but I try.
Surely, Theland1, you can't really expect me to accept that a chap as intelligent and sensitive as you are ( I am sincere in making those comments, I assure you) believes that, on the one hand, he can make assertions about all of the prophecies whether revealed, partially clothed or firmly veiled contained in the Bumper Book of Sunday School Stories as evidence of the veracity of the Bible, etc. and, on the other, be curiously unable/unwilling to provide other examples.........
I shall try.
Meanwhile, Waldo, what kind of a snare is this you are setting, for surely your barristers brain is moving towards a meticulously planned, "Check mate?"
Monk - for example, there is a cultural/biblical/Jewish thing called light and heavy. When the Bible says that Christs return will be, "as in the days of Noah," and we look to Genesis, the earth was filled with violence.
Now, to say Christs return is imminent because of worldwide violence, is absurd, as this could have been said anytime during the last 2000 years.
However, although violence has always been evident in crime and wars, that, according to what I have written regarding light and heavy, was always in fact, light. But now w are witnessing the escalation of what has always been there, entering the heavy period, just as the Bible predicted. This same formula is also applicable to morals, family breakdown, occultism, and generally all kinds of behaviour that is undesirable and that he Bible calls sin. Behaviour that anybody, religious or otherwise, despairs of. The escalations are as foretold, and when combined with world food shortages, oil crisis and climate change, the world is certainly headed in the direction indicated by the Bible.
(continued)
Meanwhile, Waldo, what kind of a snare is this you are setting, for surely your barristers brain is moving towards a meticulously planned, "Check mate?"
Monk - for example, there is a cultural/biblical/Jewish thing called light and heavy. When the Bible says that Christs return will be, "as in the days of Noah," and we look to Genesis, the earth was filled with violence.
Now, to say Christs return is imminent because of worldwide violence, is absurd, as this could have been said anytime during the last 2000 years.
However, although violence has always been evident in crime and wars, that, according to what I have written regarding light and heavy, was always in fact, light. But now w are witnessing the escalation of what has always been there, entering the heavy period, just as the Bible predicted. This same formula is also applicable to morals, family breakdown, occultism, and generally all kinds of behaviour that is undesirable and that he Bible calls sin. Behaviour that anybody, religious or otherwise, despairs of. The escalations are as foretold, and when combined with world food shortages, oil crisis and climate change, the world is certainly headed in the direction indicated by the Bible.
(continued)
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