ChatterBank2 mins ago
Is ignorance bliss?
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Are atheists who point out the glaringly obvious flaws in religion, unkind? Do non-believers have a moral duty to highlight the facts, regardless of the dismay, and possible hurt, they may cause to those who rely upon the prop of religion to get them through life - or is it kinder to say nothing and leave them to their illusions?
This question was put to me recently by an atheist friend.
This question was put to me recently by an atheist friend.
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there was a programme on last night about spiritualism and one bloke in walthamstow who claimed to be in touch with spirits and guides. most people i think thought he was a nice bloke, but deranged.
is it right to hurt his feelings and say he actually probably has a mental illness, or should we just let him get on with what he thinks he is doing ?
to me, ghosts and contacting the dead is as bunkum as religion, but it doesn't really affect me in a harmful way (a biscuit for the first person who talks about terrorism). i am quite content to let this spiritualist guy live as he sees fit, he - like 99.9% of religionists that i know personally - is not harming anyone.
is it right to hurt his feelings and say he actually probably has a mental illness, or should we just let him get on with what he thinks he is doing ?
to me, ghosts and contacting the dead is as bunkum as religion, but it doesn't really affect me in a harmful way (a biscuit for the first person who talks about terrorism). i am quite content to let this spiritualist guy live as he sees fit, he - like 99.9% of religionists that i know personally - is not harming anyone.
I recorded that programme, Ankou, and watched it last night. The patient was a grown woman - her father had been dead for 38 years. She'd been suffering from depression for many years, but after the doctor told her he'd seen the father, she decided she didn't need medication after all, so presumably that's a positive result.
Did anyone else see it?
For anyone who's interested, the next programme in the series is entitled 'How do you know God exists'. (Sunday 16 August, 7pm, Channel 4).
Did anyone else see it?
For anyone who's interested, the next programme in the series is entitled 'How do you know God exists'. (Sunday 16 August, 7pm, Channel 4).
-- answer removed --
if its just a popularity poll you wish to live by then etiquette rules, especially 'face on'.
However, Ab is debates - anything goes. As for 'moral duty' on religion is entirely and individuals choice. If all we say nothing the site collapses.
Those asking sensitive Qs on Ab do risk pain by responses.....even me! BION
However, Ab is debates - anything goes. As for 'moral duty' on religion is entirely and individuals choice. If all we say nothing the site collapses.
Those asking sensitive Qs on Ab do risk pain by responses.....even me! BION
�She'd been suffering from depression for many years, but after the doctor told her he'd seen the father, she decided she didn't need medication after all�.
so she might be right and medial science wrong then ? or perhaps she now thinks that as her dad is �around� that to escape her depressin she might want to join him. who knows.
i still think its dangerous. especially for troubled or confused minds that can be easily manipulated. but this is about people who believe in something that can affect others lives. if you are going to use this as an argument then maybe you should also consider some of the good that comes out of religious belief, even if it is ignorant of the facts as you and i see them.
so she might be right and medial science wrong then ? or perhaps she now thinks that as her dad is �around� that to escape her depressin she might want to join him. who knows.
i still think its dangerous. especially for troubled or confused minds that can be easily manipulated. but this is about people who believe in something that can affect others lives. if you are going to use this as an argument then maybe you should also consider some of the good that comes out of religious belief, even if it is ignorant of the facts as you and i see them.
Thank you Luna. I do hope you�re feeling better now.
Tamborine, could you please tell me what BION means? I never understand all those funny initials people use here.
Ankou, I agree. Spiritualism can without doubt be dangerous, but maybe her being able to dispense with medication is something good that's come out of it.
Tamborine, could you please tell me what BION means? I never understand all those funny initials people use here.
Ankou, I agree. Spiritualism can without doubt be dangerous, but maybe her being able to dispense with medication is something good that's come out of it.
Ignorance is not an excuse at all. If I believe in something then I would like people to give their views about that. That is the only way I can put my belief under trial & test. However if the person sitting opposite has no logical question as well as answers or they believe that their belief is logical and not yours without even looking into it. Then there is no point in wasting time and live and let live according to what you all believe in.
Personally I do not discuss religion unless someone wants to. Like Lonnie, me too would rather talk to people face to face. As over the internet you get no where. But I came to AB via google just to ask someone a question about property law (I believe). Now I take this as bit of a fun and try telling few people about what they may not know or may believe that they know but in fact they do not know about it the right way (misconceptions).
Otherwise for me atheism is a faith too. Because if you can't prove existence of God then you can not disprove it either.
Personally I do not discuss religion unless someone wants to. Like Lonnie, me too would rather talk to people face to face. As over the internet you get no where. But I came to AB via google just to ask someone a question about property law (I believe). Now I take this as bit of a fun and try telling few people about what they may not know or may believe that they know but in fact they do not know about it the right way (misconceptions).
Otherwise for me atheism is a faith too. Because if you can't prove existence of God then you can not disprove it either.
To assert faith is required to not believe in something is not only illogical but in the case of a being who allegedly created the universe yet either just sat there doing nothing to prevent this or was indeed the inspiration for doing it depending on your interpretation, is blatantly absurd.
Alrighty then, I think I�ve keep my trap shut long enough:
Reality should never be subjugated to delusion, no matter how seemingly pleasant the delusion might seem. Whether it be belief in god or any other form of mysticism, the mind that has been �liberated� from an adherence to reason is the plaything of brutes and thugs who are empowered by an �anything goes� philosophy.
Right and wrong are not defined by a majority or the whims of tribal leaders. Morality is the choice to live by the natural physical laws of reality through an understanding of the requirements for sustaining and promoting the lives of those who accept the responsibility to think and choose accordingly.
Reality is not manipulated by the tears or fears of those seeking an escape from responsibility for the beliefs which govern their choices or by those hoping for an excuse to ignore the consequences of their actions. The filter of faith is a smokescreen obscuring a reality which to be commanded must first be understood.
Turning away from reliance on ones own mind to solve ones problems there is no other alternative but to turn to the source of your own insecurity and self doubt, those who preach �humanities inherent evil nature� and that �the voice of reason within you is the trickery of the devil�. And when you ask for your �creator�s� forgiveness for what his alleged spokespersons proclaim is the very nature He bestowed upon you, you twist the very knife dissecting the mind that might have delivered you from the worst form of evil, a mind devoted to its own annihilation, programmed to self destruct.
Reality should never be subjugated to delusion, no matter how seemingly pleasant the delusion might seem. Whether it be belief in god or any other form of mysticism, the mind that has been �liberated� from an adherence to reason is the plaything of brutes and thugs who are empowered by an �anything goes� philosophy.
Right and wrong are not defined by a majority or the whims of tribal leaders. Morality is the choice to live by the natural physical laws of reality through an understanding of the requirements for sustaining and promoting the lives of those who accept the responsibility to think and choose accordingly.
Reality is not manipulated by the tears or fears of those seeking an escape from responsibility for the beliefs which govern their choices or by those hoping for an excuse to ignore the consequences of their actions. The filter of faith is a smokescreen obscuring a reality which to be commanded must first be understood.
Turning away from reliance on ones own mind to solve ones problems there is no other alternative but to turn to the source of your own insecurity and self doubt, those who preach �humanities inherent evil nature� and that �the voice of reason within you is the trickery of the devil�. And when you ask for your �creator�s� forgiveness for what his alleged spokespersons proclaim is the very nature He bestowed upon you, you twist the very knife dissecting the mind that might have delivered you from the worst form of evil, a mind devoted to its own annihilation, programmed to self destruct.
Absolution of an unearned guilt is no solution but a contributor to and compounder of many of the problems that drive one to seek escape from the reality one has themselves helped to bring about by obscuring reality behind the mystical shroud of faith. The hidden goal of the purveyors of faith which their followers dare not acknowledge to themselves is to bring down upon an unsuspecting world a nightmarish incomprehensible version of reality the innocent have helped them to bring about by allowing witchdoctors to shame them into silence and a guilty denial of their unspeakable purpose. As long as there remains amongst us those with the courage to stand by the convictions of their rational minds and the will to expose the real source of the evil afflicting humanity, they will not succeed.
I won�t beat around the bush here. The efficacy of the human mind and our ability to reason, the very means we rely on for our survival, are and have been under attack ever since the first time someone dared to say, �This is right and that is wrong . . . And here is why.�, not just by religion but from a wide variety of fronts. That religion has had a monopoly on matters concerning what is right and wrong for millennia can not be denied. And daily we are witness to the results of a �morality� grounded not on reason but on the dictates of a �beneficent overseer of reality�. The consequence of this departure from and failure to apply reason to the determination of how best to live our own lives and to reap the benefits of living together in peace is to gamble on an empty promise of another better life, like the one we should have sought to make a reality in this life, beyond the grave.
I won�t beat around the bush here. The efficacy of the human mind and our ability to reason, the very means we rely on for our survival, are and have been under attack ever since the first time someone dared to say, �This is right and that is wrong . . . And here is why.�, not just by religion but from a wide variety of fronts. That religion has had a monopoly on matters concerning what is right and wrong for millennia can not be denied. And daily we are witness to the results of a �morality� grounded not on reason but on the dictates of a �beneficent overseer of reality�. The consequence of this departure from and failure to apply reason to the determination of how best to live our own lives and to reap the benefits of living together in peace is to gamble on an empty promise of another better life, like the one we should have sought to make a reality in this life, beyond the grave.
Those of us who accept the reality of the finality of death and seek to fulfill our destiny in this one invaluable chance we have been provided and who have the vision to realise the promise that reason holds out to those of us willing to be responsible for our thoughts, to question our beliefs, and to live within the confines of the reality that gave us life, have no obligation to pander to the whims and unrealisable fantasies of those unwilling to pay the price of being human, to think. It is for the sake of we the living, we are obliged to speak up and defend our right to reason and to benefit from rational choices and actions.
Don�t you indulgers in whim worship and merchants of a god who refuses to speak for himself even think of trying to tell me to �Shut up!� I am merely responding to your attempts to impose your depraved ideology and to pry from my lips the only confirmation available for beliefs that have no correlation to reality, the sanction of the victim.
If ignorance is bliss then God must be the most miserable sod in the universe.
Don�t you indulgers in whim worship and merchants of a god who refuses to speak for himself even think of trying to tell me to �Shut up!� I am merely responding to your attempts to impose your depraved ideology and to pry from my lips the only confirmation available for beliefs that have no correlation to reality, the sanction of the victim.
If ignorance is bliss then God must be the most miserable sod in the universe.
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