ChatterBank32 mins ago
U.F.Os
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Where there any reported sightings of U.F.Os in the 19th century (or earlier)?
If not, why do you think that is?
If not, why do you think that is?
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"Mermaids betrayed a different human instinct. They were the UFOs or aliens of their era, .....strange creatures that defy logic but that we persist in believing are Out There, or even Over Here. Mermaid tales crop up repeatedly in Victorian history, as do stories of UFOs after 1945 - UFOs linked to the early exploration of space, mermaids to that of the sea. Nearly half of all Americans, according to polls, believe not just that aliens exist but that they have visited us. Between 1947 and 1969, the Pentagon investigated 12,618 UFO sightings."
so the victorians were generally preoccupied with mermaids, bearded ladies and circus sideshows i guess. but some did, look up charles fort who spent some time looking for records of strange 'goings on'.
http://www.resologist.net/corftp01.htm
so the victorians were generally preoccupied with mermaids, bearded ladies and circus sideshows i guess. but some did, look up charles fort who spent some time looking for records of strange 'goings on'.
http://www.resologist.net/corftp01.htm
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It's not that I doubt the existence of life on other planets, I'm just curious as to why U.F.Os didn't figure highly in the national (and international) consciousness.
People stared at the sky just as much then as today, more so as there was not much else to do in the evening. In those days there was not a plane in the sky, anything, and I mean absolutely ANYTHING, woulda stood out a mile.
There was back then a huge mass media, pushing out tons of material weekly, there was an interest in the supernatural and other phenoma, but not U.F.Os.
I find this absence peculiar and I feel it lends more weight to the notion of mistaken identity in most modern cases.
People stared at the sky just as much then as today, more so as there was not much else to do in the evening. In those days there was not a plane in the sky, anything, and I mean absolutely ANYTHING, woulda stood out a mile.
There was back then a huge mass media, pushing out tons of material weekly, there was an interest in the supernatural and other phenoma, but not U.F.Os.
I find this absence peculiar and I feel it lends more weight to the notion of mistaken identity in most modern cases.
I suppose to make some sort of comparison you have to ask how many people report claimed sightings of UFOs today, and taking into account the population of the planet, it isn't that many. There wasn't really 'a huge mass media' in the 1800s. Yes, there were newspapers, but a very large proportion of the population was illiterate, so the news didn't reach the masses. I agree with you - I think the majority of historically recent so-called sightings are mistaken, although I do believe that UFOs were a common sight in the distant past.
A lot of people could read but not write, there were far more news papers and periodicals in the mid 19th century than today, if there was a major disaster the papers would run out an extra edition.
I've read a few Victorian magazines, they talk about ghosts often enough, premonitions and dreams were they see people in danger, but never U.F.Os.
I've read a few Victorian magazines, they talk about ghosts often enough, premonitions and dreams were they see people in danger, but never U.F.Os.
Naomi your link is absolutely fascinating. But you have to look at it alongside - 'Diego Cuoghi - Art and UFO's' - sorry I can't link it as I don't know how, you'll have to google it. The site analyses some of those painting and explains the 'UFO's'. He looks at Carlo Crivelli's 'the Annuciation' (on your link, absolutely beautiful painting in National Gallery, I stood infront of it for ages) he concludes that 'The ray reaching the Madonna comes from 'two circles of little angels inside a main circle of clouds as in many other representations of God appearing into Medieval and Renaissance paintings.' The Sputnik one is a symbol of the celestial sphere illustrating the Sun and the Moon.
He criticises some of these 'UFO' websites - 'Authors of websites don't take into account the symbolic meaning of these strange elements in respect of the art of the Period'. UFO is a modern term, and Everton is right in that there are alot of interpretations but religious paintings in that period I don't think suggest that an extraterrestrial life form gave birth or is some way responsible/connected to Christianity? It is symbolic art. That's probably why Everton there aren't much 'UFO's' in the Victorian age?
He criticises some of these 'UFO' websites - 'Authors of websites don't take into account the symbolic meaning of these strange elements in respect of the art of the Period'. UFO is a modern term, and Everton is right in that there are alot of interpretations but religious paintings in that period I don't think suggest that an extraterrestrial life form gave birth or is some way responsible/connected to Christianity? It is symbolic art. That's probably why Everton there aren't much 'UFO's' in the Victorian age?
Sea Dragon, Thanks for the link. He’s right in saying that there are an infinite amount of ‘strange’ depictions in churches and in museums - and to my mind, that’s for a very good reason. The medieval painters probably were reproducing much of it as what they saw as symbolism, but my question is where did this symbolism come from initially? For the answer to that I look back not to medieval times, but to many thousands of years before the advent of Christianity. Take, for example, the 12,000 year old cave painting in my link, and the other very ancient depictions. Where on earth(?) did primitive man get such ideas? I truly don’t believe they sprang from his imagination – but I do believe that religion, and the idea of supernatural Gods, arose from visits from ‘UFOs’, the beings that crewed them, and the highly advanced technology they possessed. According to many very ancient texts practically all Gods, the world over, came from the sky – including the God of the Bible - in fact Ezekiel, in the first few pages, gives a very impressive account of a flying machine approaching from the north – and landing. (Incidentally, the notion that people from other planets could have visited the earth in the distant past is, scientifically, perfectly possible).
but those paintings could quite easily be debunked by imagination and creativity alone, rather than visual experience. look at how hollywood has ‘created’ certain alien depictions and invented the flying saucer. look at these:
http://www.monstergalaxy.com/images/Lifesize-Alien-Prop.jpg
http://images.mirror.co.uk/upl/m4/mar2009/8/1/ET_53686645.jpg
these are not based on real sightings, just the imagination of an artist/special effects expert – you and i had not seen anything like this before. what you are suggesting is that in thousands of years time people will look back at us and believe these aliens really must be a record of things that have visited us because we didn’t have the capacity to create this imaginary visual form in our own minds.
http://www.monstergalaxy.com/images/Lifesize-Alien-Prop.jpg
http://images.mirror.co.uk/upl/m4/mar2009/8/1/ET_53686645.jpg
these are not based on real sightings, just the imagination of an artist/special effects expert – you and i had not seen anything like this before. what you are suggesting is that in thousands of years time people will look back at us and believe these aliens really must be a record of things that have visited us because we didn’t have the capacity to create this imaginary visual form in our own minds.
Isn't it wonderful to spend a Friday evening on Answerbank?. I may even go exploring abit! But there's one thing I don't understand - this is an exposed public site, spanning beyond the U.k, so how come there are so few people on it? In this section anyway? Also Naomi, you and I may be perceived as crazy - I believe in the metaphysical plane of Spirituality and you believe that super-intelligent aliens started of Civilization? I find it hilarious!! I can't stop laughing.
Seriously though - not only is this going to end up being another long post, but I suggest you look at Graham Hancock: Meetings with Ancient Teachers of Mankind. You ever wondered why cave paintings are similar across the Continents? Was it Migration - some date back 25,000 years ago? Hancock says that Shamans/elders responsible for the paintings would retreat into the cave, go into a trance whether through hallucinogenic drugs or even meditation and then paint their visions or mystical experience. One has to consider that the people lived of the land thereby digesting herbs and plants. These visions would then greatly influence their belief and shape their culture of the time. Hence the similarity of objects and aliens across vast Continents. I mean we use, is it 30% of the mind or something? Drugs tap into another part of it and I recommended Oliver Sacks on another post as accident victims can tap into or awaken other parts of the brain with interesting results.
I think it is more likely that hallucinogenic drugs have shaped mankind's belief more than any other? Most of the artists and Literary writers were on drugs. But there are many other interpretations/explanations of the cave paintings. He connects the Supernatural with Science.
Seriously though - not only is this going to end up being another long post, but I suggest you look at Graham Hancock: Meetings with Ancient Teachers of Mankind. You ever wondered why cave paintings are similar across the Continents? Was it Migration - some date back 25,000 years ago? Hancock says that Shamans/elders responsible for the paintings would retreat into the cave, go into a trance whether through hallucinogenic drugs or even meditation and then paint their visions or mystical experience. One has to consider that the people lived of the land thereby digesting herbs and plants. These visions would then greatly influence their belief and shape their culture of the time. Hence the similarity of objects and aliens across vast Continents. I mean we use, is it 30% of the mind or something? Drugs tap into another part of it and I recommended Oliver Sacks on another post as accident victims can tap into or awaken other parts of the brain with interesting results.
I think it is more likely that hallucinogenic drugs have shaped mankind's belief more than any other? Most of the artists and Literary writers were on drugs. But there are many other interpretations/explanations of the cave paintings. He connects the Supernatural with Science.
There is also religious meaning as interpretation, not only from a mystical experience but the Sun is the most powerful force. Life is given to Man by the Sun, therefore symbolism in paintings is more likely to be air-born and shapes to be representative of the Sun and Moon and things from above? And some explain the geographical similarities of the paintings as being genetically inherent in the human brain (Jung) There was an article recently in the papers suggesting a 'gene' being responsible for religious experiences, one poster on the site mentioned it as well.
P.s I do believe in aliens though as rare visitors to the planet. And if you haven't, watch 'The Knowing' with Nicholas Cage, I'll think you'll like it. It has a good ending although some reviewers didn't think so. But then not everyone is open-minded to interpretation?
P.s I do believe in aliens though as rare visitors to the planet. And if you haven't, watch 'The Knowing' with Nicholas Cage, I'll think you'll like it. It has a good ending although some reviewers didn't think so. But then not everyone is open-minded to interpretation?
Seadragon - I've only just popped into AB before I turn my computer off for the day, so I'll get back to you if you don't mind. Thanks for the recommendation, but I've studied this, along with religion, for years, and I've read Graham Hancock, and every other publication on the subject that I've been able to get hold of - including the Bible. If I have time, I'll speak to you tomorrow. Night.
Hi I'm away from this afternoon for most of the weekend, I'm glad you've looked at Hancock. I was thinking about your interpretation and the 'UFO' link and I think its more me who is uncomfortable with this perspective as there is evidence available for it. I didn't get round to reading all the encounters at the end of your link but I will do. I think I feel more comfortable investigating other theories but this is one that cannot be ignored. My sister who doesn't believe in 'UFO's' is convinced she saw one from her back garden afew weeks ago. And I confess to knowing 2 other people who said they have seen unexplainable objects in the sky, from their speed and sudden movements they can't find another explanation for it.
Good morning seadragon. I'm posting something I posted a while ago which will explain my beliefs to you. Here goes.
'I've never considered the subject to be 'paranormal'. Logically, given the vast age of the universe, and the relatively young age of our solar system by comparison, the likelihood that there exist many civilisations far more advanced to ours is not impossible. In fact, unless you believe that we are unique, then it's highly probable - and if they are that far advanced, then they have made scientific discoveries that we have yet to dream of. To get your head around the idea, you have to imagine where we will be, technologically, in say, 10,000 years time. Now if other civilisations were at that point 10,000 years ago, there's every chance that their technology extended to inter-stellar space travel, as ours no doubt will in another 10,000 years. If you really think about the implications of that, the possibility that one, or more, of them have visited this planet in the past, or are taking the odd peep now, is not really remote at all. It doesn't take much thought to get it into perspective - but nevertheless, I'll sit back and wait for the usual derision from those who haven't taken the trouble to really think about it, or who are incapable of getting their heads around it - or who really do think that we're unique because God is supernatural and he made the universe especially for us pathetically arrogant Earthlings.'
'I've never considered the subject to be 'paranormal'. Logically, given the vast age of the universe, and the relatively young age of our solar system by comparison, the likelihood that there exist many civilisations far more advanced to ours is not impossible. In fact, unless you believe that we are unique, then it's highly probable - and if they are that far advanced, then they have made scientific discoveries that we have yet to dream of. To get your head around the idea, you have to imagine where we will be, technologically, in say, 10,000 years time. Now if other civilisations were at that point 10,000 years ago, there's every chance that their technology extended to inter-stellar space travel, as ours no doubt will in another 10,000 years. If you really think about the implications of that, the possibility that one, or more, of them have visited this planet in the past, or are taking the odd peep now, is not really remote at all. It doesn't take much thought to get it into perspective - but nevertheless, I'll sit back and wait for the usual derision from those who haven't taken the trouble to really think about it, or who are incapable of getting their heads around it - or who really do think that we're unique because God is supernatural and he made the universe especially for us pathetically arrogant Earthlings.'
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