ChatterBank1 min ago
fao keyplus90 - your closed Q
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you didn't give me time to reply:
“…..tamborine: (Thu 23:02 07/Jan/10) Speak for yourself keyplus - not ALL men are so ruthless as to divorce a woman for her bank balance.
Keyplus90 (Sat 22:37 09/Jan/10) – Muslims countries have least rate of divorce. Now lets see other side of your coin……”
Muslim divorces are unaccountable; show me evidence of your statistics. Polygamy is accepted in the Koran, who needs divorce if you can have lots of wives. Polygamy leads to men legally neglecting earlier wives & kids, often with little income since many muslim women are not encouraged to earn independently; giving men sole power.
Muslim women are coerced by their men & faith to shroud themselves against the outsiders, to lose their individuality. For me, seeing a covered muslim woman is like looking at a roll of cloth – it has no senses I can relate to. Talking to a pair of eyes is fruitless if I can’t see a facial response. That, ofcourse, is exactly how a muslim man wants me to perceive their females. However here you are, a muslim man, having dialogue with kaffir women.
http://www.theanswerb...Question843395-4.html
“…..tamborine: (Thu 23:02 07/Jan/10) Speak for yourself keyplus - not ALL men are so ruthless as to divorce a woman for her bank balance.
Keyplus90 (Sat 22:37 09/Jan/10) – Muslims countries have least rate of divorce. Now lets see other side of your coin……”
Muslim divorces are unaccountable; show me evidence of your statistics. Polygamy is accepted in the Koran, who needs divorce if you can have lots of wives. Polygamy leads to men legally neglecting earlier wives & kids, often with little income since many muslim women are not encouraged to earn independently; giving men sole power.
Muslim women are coerced by their men & faith to shroud themselves against the outsiders, to lose their individuality. For me, seeing a covered muslim woman is like looking at a roll of cloth – it has no senses I can relate to. Talking to a pair of eyes is fruitless if I can’t see a facial response. That, ofcourse, is exactly how a muslim man wants me to perceive their females. However here you are, a muslim man, having dialogue with kaffir women.
http://www.theanswerb...Question843395-4.html
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Your question shows your mental age. And I will not waste too much time as these issues have been talked about before. My question was there for over two weeks and still you did not get enough time to answer.
Why not get an answer from Naomi (the self confessed most intelligent on AB) for all of your these questions as she believes (and amazingly accepts too) that majority of the women converting to Islam (in the West) are doing that because they are marrying Muslim men. Where I can't say that all of the Muslim men are angels as black sheep’s are everywhere but it does show that all these issues you mentioned are mere misconceptions. Yes like it or not.
Why not get an answer from Naomi (the self confessed most intelligent on AB) for all of your these questions as she believes (and amazingly accepts too) that majority of the women converting to Islam (in the West) are doing that because they are marrying Muslim men. Where I can't say that all of the Muslim men are angels as black sheep’s are everywhere but it does show that all these issues you mentioned are mere misconceptions. Yes like it or not.
Oh dear. I'm not sure what 'shows your mental age' is supposed to mean, Tamborine, but I suspect Keyplus is upset because he has to contend with another woman (I presume you're a woman?) who doesn't need, or allow, a man to tell her what to think and say. Maybe he would like you to shut up and go and hide somewhere too, just as he told me to. That'll be two of us under the burka then. I expect that's where he'd like me to hide myself.
Keyplus, //Why not get an answer from Naomi (the self confessed most intelligent on AB)//
You claim it, and as far as I'm aware you're the only one who does. I have never said it and nor would I. You're making it up as usual. No change there then.
As for misconceptions, according to you anything negative concerning Islam is a misconception. Well it isn't - like it or not.
Keyplus, //Why not get an answer from Naomi (the self confessed most intelligent on AB)//
You claim it, and as far as I'm aware you're the only one who does. I have never said it and nor would I. You're making it up as usual. No change there then.
As for misconceptions, according to you anything negative concerning Islam is a misconception. Well it isn't - like it or not.
I came and looked as this earlier and was tempted to reply but I was so annoyed I thought no sit back and let Naomi reply on her own behalf as she may not appreciate me stepping in. I'm not sure what the other thread was about any way.
Typical Keyplus attitude though. It supprises me that he keeps coming on here considering he all he gets is bad replies.
but it is the usual case of Keyplus and the never ending need to convert any one who will listen and ignoring any replies that do not agree with him.
whether they are female or not.
And no Keyplus I can;t recall Naomi ever saying she was the most intelligent AB on here. and I do read a lot of what she puts in because unfotunately for you she does tend to make a lot of sense. Something of which you have little understanding. Islam is not and has never been the answer to everything for every one. Neither is any other religion. But don't let that stop you from making yourself look a fool.
It fun watching you do it time and again.
Typical Keyplus attitude though. It supprises me that he keeps coming on here considering he all he gets is bad replies.
but it is the usual case of Keyplus and the never ending need to convert any one who will listen and ignoring any replies that do not agree with him.
whether they are female or not.
And no Keyplus I can;t recall Naomi ever saying she was the most intelligent AB on here. and I do read a lot of what she puts in because unfotunately for you she does tend to make a lot of sense. Something of which you have little understanding. Islam is not and has never been the answer to everything for every one. Neither is any other religion. But don't let that stop you from making yourself look a fool.
It fun watching you do it time and again.
-- answer removed --
Seems to me that my words about Naomi being the most intelligent on AB has hurt more than I thought (I was only giving the credit to someone who puts in so much). After all every one believes that he/she is clever so why give all credit to one person. Perhaps she is not the most intelligent (after all) and I take my words back. That takes me back to point zero again.
Keyplus, From reading your posts in the past, no one here who possesses a modicum of common sense can have failed to understand your agenda, so if you think your words have hurt anyone, or that anything you can say either now or in the future will ever take you back to point zero, you're deluding yourself.
Tigerlily, I never mind people stepping in on posts relating to me, so please feel free to step in whenever you want to.
Tigerlily, I never mind people stepping in on posts relating to me, so please feel free to step in whenever you want to.
Naomi You word it so much better than I can.
Keyplus I can accept that there are several people on AB who are far more intelligent that I am.
After all that is one of the reason I come on here and I have recieved help from several people with certain problems.
It does appear that you have a hard time accepting that there are people on here who are without a doubt considerably more intelligent than you are. Whether they are men or women you still have trouble with any disagreement with how you see the world, life and religion.
You are having a struggle trying to understand why people see Islam as nothing but a violent, controlling, backward way of life.
Unless you can provide absolute proof that it is not (and I don;t mean proof from Islamic sites), then we will continue to challenge every statement you make.
That isn't an assumption of being cleaver it is just being real and not excepting that the answer to everything are not in a book written by a man who lived centuries ago.
Keyplus I can accept that there are several people on AB who are far more intelligent that I am.
After all that is one of the reason I come on here and I have recieved help from several people with certain problems.
It does appear that you have a hard time accepting that there are people on here who are without a doubt considerably more intelligent than you are. Whether they are men or women you still have trouble with any disagreement with how you see the world, life and religion.
You are having a struggle trying to understand why people see Islam as nothing but a violent, controlling, backward way of life.
Unless you can provide absolute proof that it is not (and I don;t mean proof from Islamic sites), then we will continue to challenge every statement you make.
That isn't an assumption of being cleaver it is just being real and not excepting that the answer to everything are not in a book written by a man who lived centuries ago.
Of course the divorce rate in muslim countries is low.
All the power lies with the man. As Keyplus's link in the old thread explained the wife may be granted a divorce but she must retun the dowry to her hudband. They don't even consider the right of the woman to a share in the wealth of the marriage because everything, including her, belongs to the man. After all he did pay the dowry for her.
This is the mentality behind Keyplus's logic in that divorce is promoted in the west because the woman can obtain half of her husband's wealth (emphasis on the fact that it all belongs to him in the forst place.)
In many Moslem societies a woman without a man is higly vulnerable to sexual assault particularly if she had previously been married. Clearly she is unmarried yet has had sex and is now fair game for those who feel shee needs to be punished for the retrospective adultery.
She risks being killed by the husband or his family for the dishonour perpetrated upon him. She may be killed in the name of the honour of her own family. Vast numbers of women are attacked with acid for failing to comply with the demands of either family.
And lastly the husband is free to take another wife without the need to divorce the first. The first wife has no real power to stop him and yet must still endure being raped if he insists on his conjugal rights.
The bases for this incredible prejudice against women is clearly written in the Koran.
All the power lies with the man. As Keyplus's link in the old thread explained the wife may be granted a divorce but she must retun the dowry to her hudband. They don't even consider the right of the woman to a share in the wealth of the marriage because everything, including her, belongs to the man. After all he did pay the dowry for her.
This is the mentality behind Keyplus's logic in that divorce is promoted in the west because the woman can obtain half of her husband's wealth (emphasis on the fact that it all belongs to him in the forst place.)
In many Moslem societies a woman without a man is higly vulnerable to sexual assault particularly if she had previously been married. Clearly she is unmarried yet has had sex and is now fair game for those who feel shee needs to be punished for the retrospective adultery.
She risks being killed by the husband or his family for the dishonour perpetrated upon him. She may be killed in the name of the honour of her own family. Vast numbers of women are attacked with acid for failing to comply with the demands of either family.
And lastly the husband is free to take another wife without the need to divorce the first. The first wife has no real power to stop him and yet must still endure being raped if he insists on his conjugal rights.
The bases for this incredible prejudice against women is clearly written in the Koran.
Tigerlily – If you go and scroll through past posts then you would never see anywhere me saying that I know about everything. It’s the others who claim that. Yes one thing I can’t accept is that people who read in the papers and watch on the TV tell me about what I have first hand knowledge. If that is in your word hard accepting then I can just turn these words around towards you. Your question is also your own answer. I don’t have to prove anything about Islam to other pixels on a website called AB. Beauty of Islam is around you just walk out of your home and you will not have to go too far to find someone who converted to Islam. Why not ask them why they made this mistake? If not then ask the one I mentioned before and you respect her knowledge too. Ask Naomi why more Western women are converting to Islam? I am sure she would be able to repeat her words.
For example all the analogies BESO has given there are, I am sure nothing but heard from here and seen over there. Its like when people talk about hand chopping punishment in Saudi Arabia. I have offered so many people that I will buy ticket, pay for hotel and food. Come with me and spend one month in Saudi Arabia and see how many people you would be able to find with one hand missing.
cont:
For example all the analogies BESO has given there are, I am sure nothing but heard from here and seen over there. Its like when people talk about hand chopping punishment in Saudi Arabia. I have offered so many people that I will buy ticket, pay for hotel and food. Come with me and spend one month in Saudi Arabia and see how many people you would be able to find with one hand missing.
cont:
BESO how many times have you been and spent sometime in any Muslim country and how many times have you seen these things yourself? In Islam woman has the right to set amount of dowery. She can set one pound or one billion pounds. And that is the reason if man gives divorce then he does not get a penny back out of that Plus anything else he has given her dos not matter how expensive. So if she asks for a huge amount and then asks for divorce and keeps the dowery as well, goes and marries someone else and gets more dowery. Although if man wish he can leave the dower but is it fair on man? Women do not have to return dowery if man divorces her. You let me know. Don’t you think that is what is the reason in my example about footballers wives etc.
Keyplus.
The bottom line is that needing the advice of a stupid book to tell you the rights of a man or woman is just plain dumb and ignorant. The simple fact of common sense every day morality is that a woman rightly has exactly the same rights as a man.
The writers of neither the Koran nor the Bible have grasped this simple foundation princple that must underly any intelligent perspective on morality.
Like the Bible, your exalted book is a ridiculous, primitive, repugnent analysis of morality that promotes an edifice of bigotry, intolerance and hatred behind a facade of love. Both books speak of love without a modicum of comprehension of the meaning.
All forms of theism are fundamenally flawed and invite the believer to a precipice of unmitigated arrogance.
The bottom line is that needing the advice of a stupid book to tell you the rights of a man or woman is just plain dumb and ignorant. The simple fact of common sense every day morality is that a woman rightly has exactly the same rights as a man.
The writers of neither the Koran nor the Bible have grasped this simple foundation princple that must underly any intelligent perspective on morality.
Like the Bible, your exalted book is a ridiculous, primitive, repugnent analysis of morality that promotes an edifice of bigotry, intolerance and hatred behind a facade of love. Both books speak of love without a modicum of comprehension of the meaning.
All forms of theism are fundamenally flawed and invite the believer to a precipice of unmitigated arrogance.
-- answer removed --
In Islam woman has the right to set amount of dowery.
Keyplus
Dowery!!! come on really. Why should a woman pay a man to marry her? (lets Not be rude here.)
Doweries went out of style a long time ago. Another area in which Islam is still in the past.
Have you never heard of marrying some one because you love them. Not because you get paid for doing it. (Although there is a lot of that going on. It's called marriage of conveniance.)
I never said you said you said you said you know it all. So please don't go putting words into my mouth, or on the my replies.
This is why people give you a hard time.
Keyplus
Dowery!!! come on really. Why should a woman pay a man to marry her? (lets Not be rude here.)
Doweries went out of style a long time ago. Another area in which Islam is still in the past.
Have you never heard of marrying some one because you love them. Not because you get paid for doing it. (Although there is a lot of that going on. It's called marriage of conveniance.)
I never said you said you said you said you know it all. So please don't go putting words into my mouth, or on the my replies.
This is why people give you a hard time.
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