Born Again Christians

[dave_c]

I had a conversation with a born again christian, talking about his religion, when push comes to shove he eventually claimed that Catholics and Anglicans are not Christian(!) In case the Catholics in particular, because theres only one god he claims we (I'm born Catholic) worship the Virgin Mary and Pope (as well as statues) in the same level as the big man, I told him he was a bit naive in saying that and it was more complex then that. He went on about how the Catholic Church is Corruption (but what do u expect from one of the oldest and biggest organisations in the world? To be perfect all these centuries?) And the Pope's own views in society. Anyway our conversation was cut short and never discussed since.

So I put to you answerbank folk, is this view unique to this particular BAC? Or is this a general view of Anglicans/Catholics?

Please don't turn this into a sectarian slagging exchange! ;-)

[Hgrove]

I am a lapsed RC.  There are lots of churches who say that Catholics are not real Christians.  There is probably no point in entering into a discussion with them, unless one is a philosopher or theologian or a sophist.  Anyway I think they misunderstand: so far as I know Catholics do not "worship" the VM, the Pope, not to mention the Saints etc. etc.  Once I was looking for information on a church which I had never heard of before, because I had found out that a friend's husband is a member.  I came across an American site maintained by an evangelic minister (could not tell you from what church exactly).  Anyway, on his website he basically assessed all the different Christian denominations against his church's parameters, in order to decide whether they were real Christians or not.  He concluded that RCs, as wells as a number of other denominations, were not real Christians.  But I remained unconvinced by his reasoning.  Years ago I read a book entitled "Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance".  At the beginning the author tells how he got into a conversation with a friend who was RC and explains that they were never going to find any common ground because they came from different conceptions of morals, and I think he has a point.

[Cetti]

Well, as a born again Christian and I find that remark very strange and also very pompous. No-one has the right to decide who is or who isn't a Christian, except God - and I expect even He can't tell sometimes ;-)

Even though I was brought up in the Anglican tradition the finest and kindest Christian I ever met was a Catholic, but I have to agree that  there are definitely 'odd bods' on both sides who like to analyse practically every comma in the Bible  - and then come up with some strange truth that no-one's ever heard of.

The bottom line is "In heaven there are no Anglicans, Methodists, Baptists, Catholics, Presbyterians or Pentacostals - only Christians" This was preached many years ago by a world renowned Evangelist and I've never forgotten it.

[muebuch85234]

Many people often don't know what their faith believes and know what they grew up hearing. The RC Church's theology  according to the Council of Trent in 1545 A.D. states that people do not have the right to interpret scripture different than the holy mother church. This doctrine was confirmed 400 years later by the Second Vatican Council held in 1962 A.D. The RC church is supreme over God, Bible and any Bishop or layperson.RCatholics worshiping Virgin Mary comes from proclamations made by popes of the RC Church. Pope Leo XIII stated in an encyclical that "Mary is the intermediary through whom is distributed unto us this treasure of mercies gathered by God ... Thus as no man goeth to the Father but by the Son, so no man goeth to Christ but by Mary." John Paul II, in his recent encyclical, Veriatis Splendor, said, "Mary is the Mother of Mercy because it is to her that Jesus entrusts his Church and all humanity." As recently as in 1988, Catholicism and Fundamentalism, p 279; "...Mary is the Mediatrix of all graces because of her intercession for us in heaven." The doctrine of the RC Church is not the same as teaching from the Bible. I know some who say they are Catholic Christians. They don't worship the pope and the virgin Mary but remain committed to the other parts of the RC Church. Most Christian denominations state in their theology that the way to God and Jesus is a direct route. Going through a human being (Pope) to talk to or worship God is the same as worshipping idols. Putting the Virgin Mary before God or stating that she intercedes to God for you is placing idols or saints on the same level as God. The Documents is this response are online and in bookstores. Do your own research. I was surprised by what I found.

[Ewood27]

I am an Anglican.  I believe that a real Christian is one who believes in Almighty God and that Jesus was His son and the Christ, one who lives his life according to Christian principles and has tolerance for others.  The details of the religious ritual a particular person follows are less important.  I get the feeling that "your" BAC has the zeal and intolerance of the newly converted.  Pray for him, that he may become more concerned with helping people to Heaven than consigning them to Hell.

[Clanad]

Well said, Ewood27...

[arthurstace]

The Christian church is opposed to all religions other than its own.

[Hgrove]

For the sake of good order: 

The RC Church does not, as muebuch85234 states, claim that "The RC church is supreme over God, Bible and any Bishop or layperson. RCatholics worshiping Virgin Mary comes from proclamations made by popes of the RC Church.  " etc. etc. 

Catholics do not "worship the pope and the virgin Mary" as he writes. 

Such sweeping statements as the following are unfair and encourage sectarian intolerance: " Going through a human being (Pope) to talk to or worship God is the same as worshipping idols. Putting the Virgin Mary before God or stating that she intercedes to God for you is placing idols or saints on the same level as God." 
 
These statements are based on false premises and non-consequential conclusions.  They are ill-informed anti-Catholic prejudice inciting sectarian hatred.  You'll be saying Catholics eat babies next.

Didn't Jesus say to Peter (to the best of my recollection): you are the rock upon which I shall found my church?