Afterlife

[Nadis]

What makes one dead person a ghost and another a spirit guide?

[tamborine]

I think a ghost is unexpectant whereas a spirit guide is invited.

[Buenchico]

As an atheist I don't believe in any form of afterlife.

However I'm prepared to accept that that there's very limited evidence suggesting that some form of imagery of a person (i.e. a 'ghost') might exist after someone dies. However there seems to be no real evidence whatsoever suggesting that the 'ghost' can interact with the 'real world'. (i.e, if 'ghosts' exist, they're simply 'natural photographs').

The concept of 'spirit guides' didn't even exist in European culture until the advent of 'spiritualism' in the late 19th century. Nearly all 'spiritualists' have been proven to be either frauds or simply deluded.

Chris

[mike11111]

On the same topic, can anyone remember a famous "medium" from the 70s and 80s called Doris Stokes? She was well known for her stage performances and books, and claimed to be in regular contact with deceased celebrities. Since she died (many years ago) I wonder if any current "medium" has heard from her.

[Nadis]

Some "mediums" claim spirit guides are helping them and after reading one persons' biography, the guide was not invited. In fact the medium was terrified on the first encounter.
I believe some mediums are definitely fake but a small percentage are lucky.
I thought atheism was non belief in a god or gods or is it just a belief based on what you haven't experienced yourself or knowledge based on scientific findings but then even scientific findings only reach as far as our capacity to understand them or maybe you just havent found everything yet to explain it away?
Some stuff will always remain unexplainable.


Nadis

[naomi24]

I imagine ordinary common or garden ghosts don't work for a living. ;o)

Chris is right in saying the concept of the 'spirit guide' was embraced with the advent of spiritualism, although the Native Americans believe that the spirits of their ancestors guide them, and that everyone is born with an animal spirit guide.

Mike, I googled that to see if anyone has claimed it, but I can't find anything. Maybe I didn't look hard enough. ;o)

[naomi24]

Atheism doesn't have a creed. It isn't a belief system. It's simply a non-belief in gods. Some (like me) acknowledge the existence of ghosts, but believe they are natural rather than supernatural.

[Nadis]

Can you believe in something by not believing it or vice versa?
To not believe in one makes a belief of the other.
That's a Buddhist concept....isn't it?
I've got a headache.

[Nadis]

I'm sure the American (old ones) were around a long time before "spiritualism" became a word so maybe they know more than any of us.

[naomi24]

Ha ha! I'm not surprised! :o)

[naomi24]

Sorry, we cross posted. Who knows?

[RATTER15]

I'm also an Atheist, meaning I don't believe in any gods, however that does not prevent me believing in ghosts and spirits!! but as it is I don't believe in any such thing!! I would love to think their are spirits or ghosts out there, the world and his wife seem to have seen one, nearly everybody I know has seen one. I put this down to the fact that I'm not so gullible and I don't have this desire to have to stand up and say Ive seen a ghost!!

I have lost family members in dreadful circumstances and miss them dreadfully but I have no illusions of them burning in hell, living it up in heaven or about to pay me a visit a a ghost or spirit, all are equally preposterous.

I'm sure people will say I have never seen ghosts because I'm not receptive, I say Its because I live in the real world!!

[RATTER15]

I hasten to add that I don't think people who have claimed to have seen ghosts are lying, I just think that these people are too susceptible to believing these things and wont actually challenge what they have seen. I have seen and heard some strange things that could easily be attributed to ghosts but when I think about it, it can usually be explained by "rational" thinking!

[naomi24]

Ratter, so are you saying that anyone who claims to have seen a ghost is either deluded or lying? I'm realistic, I don't suffer delusions, and I've no particular desire to stand up and say I've seen a ghost - but I have, so how do you work that out?

[naomi24]

Oops - cross posted again. You say it can usually be explained by rational thinking - and that's true - but what about the incidents that can't be explained by rational thinking? Do you just ignore those because you don't want to believe that something you can't explain is happening?

[evedawn]

I believe all ghosts / guides etc are ....demons. Some just masquerade as "helpful" but really their aim is never good. I don't believe anyone who is dead can come back to communicate. If you're dead youre in heaven or hell not an inbetween place where you can visit the living. Not a very popular view I realise but it's what i believe.

[RATTER15]

Hi Naomi, I cant work it out, I also cant work out why so many people believe in a God. Like i said, I would love to believe that there are ghosts and spirits out there but until I see some tangible evidence my common sense says that there is nothing. My very own Mother, now deceased claims to have seen my dead Brother stood at the foot of her bed, he died in very unpleasant circumstances which I would love him to come and explain to me! My Mother was understandably very distraught when he died and I feel that this was a vision that was constructed from a very disturbed mind.
I don't know all the answers but what I do know is that I will challenge any medium to tell me things about my family that only I know!

I know that if my Brother had the opportunity to contact me, he certainly would do that!!

[RATTER15]

Interestingly, I have a message tattooed on my arm for my dead brother to read, it was purely put there to show my thoughts too my brother not for any other reason, so that if he is looking down he will see this message and know what it means and be reassured by it, , nobody else knows apart from the people I have told of this message but many have seen the tattoo. So I am still open minded to this concept, I just need to witness something myself, until then.........

[naomi24]

Ratter, I understand what you're saying, and it's quite possible you're right about your mother's experience. Having said that, my own experiences leave me with no alternative but to believe there is something happening that we simply don't comprehend. That doesn't mean God dunnit though. ;o)

[RATTER15]

Naomi, We both know God didn't do it lol, however I do accept what you say and that you are convinced of your experience, I just wish I could have that same experience, this alone will change my views, I am open minded, I just need convincing I suppose, that will take some doing though.

[Nadis]

I'm sure there must be atheists or people who don't believe in god, ghosts and other not yet explainable stuff that have had experiences they were unable to fathom out but know it was real to all their senses.
I have visited a medium after a family member died and the person was spot on with everything including details about other members of my family.
How did they know?
I made a point of not giving too much info away.