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What is a God?
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How would you define a God?
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Hi Naomi,
well I take it that all who have read this thread are not over 100 years of age.
I know, and so do all of earths folk would say 'we weren't born'! Well Life after death I believe we all go back there - peace, whether we choose to think it'll be like going to sleep and not dreaming to a shut off void. I could recite Coptic Codex, the Testament or the Qur'an. Whatever one believes we all end up going to the same place I guess, which will be peaceful and at rest.
well I take it that all who have read this thread are not over 100 years of age.
I know, and so do all of earths folk would say 'we weren't born'! Well Life after death I believe we all go back there - peace, whether we choose to think it'll be like going to sleep and not dreaming to a shut off void. I could recite Coptic Codex, the Testament or the Qur'an. Whatever one believes we all end up going to the same place I guess, which will be peaceful and at rest.
LG,
Sorry I missed your earlier post. You should realise by now that I like a challenge and once I get the bit between my teeth it's hard to let go.
LG & Naomi,
I agree that relion and the concept of a creator have become to mean the same thing. I think the three of us share the same view regarding religion and an abrahamic god (for want of a better phrase). I just thought it would be interesting to try and discuss the hypothesis of a "creator" without muddying it with the usual religious mumbo jumbo.
The title of this question was "What is a God". I'm proposing a god COULD be a creator with no interest in shaping the way we think or act, no desire to be worshipped and that a creator could exist without an afterlife.
Just to continue with my little indulgence. What evidence would we look for for a "creator" Perhaps: (1) Time appearing to converge back to a singularity such as the big bang when everything was created. (2) Life perfectly fitting every environment as if it was designed. (3) Everything fitting into neat food chains (4) Evidence of discarded designs such as dinosaurs. What wouldn't be required would be direct evidence of the creator, if it didn't want to be worshipped then why communicate with us and if it was outside our definition of the universe we wouldn't be able to detect it. Food for thought? I'm not despite the impression trying to argue the case over any other scenario just suggesting it's not as ridiculous a possibility as some people think.
Sorry I missed your earlier post. You should realise by now that I like a challenge and once I get the bit between my teeth it's hard to let go.
LG & Naomi,
I agree that relion and the concept of a creator have become to mean the same thing. I think the three of us share the same view regarding religion and an abrahamic god (for want of a better phrase). I just thought it would be interesting to try and discuss the hypothesis of a "creator" without muddying it with the usual religious mumbo jumbo.
The title of this question was "What is a God". I'm proposing a god COULD be a creator with no interest in shaping the way we think or act, no desire to be worshipped and that a creator could exist without an afterlife.
Just to continue with my little indulgence. What evidence would we look for for a "creator" Perhaps: (1) Time appearing to converge back to a singularity such as the big bang when everything was created. (2) Life perfectly fitting every environment as if it was designed. (3) Everything fitting into neat food chains (4) Evidence of discarded designs such as dinosaurs. What wouldn't be required would be direct evidence of the creator, if it didn't want to be worshipped then why communicate with us and if it was outside our definition of the universe we wouldn't be able to detect it. Food for thought? I'm not despite the impression trying to argue the case over any other scenario just suggesting it's not as ridiculous a possibility as some people think.
Tweaker,
I know this is the age old question but why do you believe it. Why do you have the particular faith that you do? Why should I believe in your faith rather than somebody else's? There are old documents that say all manner of things why believe one rather than another? If I wrote a codex saying you must paint yourself green and give me all your money you would laugh at it but what makes mine different from one written a thousand years ago by somebody else you've never met?
Please note I am not actually saying you are wrong only asking you why you have chosen to believe this particular version of events rather than another.
Personally I have no recollection of life before birth so much as I like the idea of an afterlife I have seen no firm evidence for or against it therefore I have no conviction one way or the other.
I know this is the age old question but why do you believe it. Why do you have the particular faith that you do? Why should I believe in your faith rather than somebody else's? There are old documents that say all manner of things why believe one rather than another? If I wrote a codex saying you must paint yourself green and give me all your money you would laugh at it but what makes mine different from one written a thousand years ago by somebody else you've never met?
Please note I am not actually saying you are wrong only asking you why you have chosen to believe this particular version of events rather than another.
Personally I have no recollection of life before birth so much as I like the idea of an afterlife I have seen no firm evidence for or against it therefore I have no conviction one way or the other.
Rev Sermon, I have wondered the same thing. When I was younger in believed in the steady state theory of the universe, which was obviously at odds with the notion of creation. Most people did. However, it seems we were wrong. Instead, we now have a big bang theory that is not so very different from the biblical conception after all. So it does seem possible (that is, not disprovable) that there might be, or have been, a creator god. If true, it wouldn't make much difference to anyone's life, no doubt.
It also seems as if it may be possible to remember life before birth: some of the answers here are interesting:
http://www.guardian.c...uery/0,,-2899,00.html
It also seems as if it may be possible to remember life before birth: some of the answers here are interesting:
http://www.guardian.c...uery/0,,-2899,00.html
Hi Tweaker, I think I must be reading your post differently to Rev.Sermon. I took it that you were saying you don’t believe in a conscious afterlife, but simply in a dreamless sleep and that‘s it.. Am I mistaken? If so, perhaps you’d be kind enough to explain exactly what you mean.
Rev, a god who had no interest in us could be the creator of the universe, but, without substantiation, I can’t see how the ‘evidence’ you present could be conceived as emanating from a god. You say the only thing that wouldn’t be required would be direct evidence of a creator. I beg to differ. Since the rest of the evidence offered can currently be explained without resorting to the idea of a supernatural creator, the one thing that would be required above all else would be direct evidence of a creator. Without that evidence, you have no case, M’lud. ;o)
Jno, //we now have a big bang theory that is not so very different from the biblical conception after all.//
How do you work that out? I read the bible and see nothing even remotely like the big bang theory there.
Rev, a god who had no interest in us could be the creator of the universe, but, without substantiation, I can’t see how the ‘evidence’ you present could be conceived as emanating from a god. You say the only thing that wouldn’t be required would be direct evidence of a creator. I beg to differ. Since the rest of the evidence offered can currently be explained without resorting to the idea of a supernatural creator, the one thing that would be required above all else would be direct evidence of a creator. Without that evidence, you have no case, M’lud. ;o)
Jno, //we now have a big bang theory that is not so very different from the biblical conception after all.//
How do you work that out? I read the bible and see nothing even remotely like the big bang theory there.
Naomi,
I'm not trying too hard to convice anyone the Universe WAS created by a sentient being just open up the possibility it COULD HAVE been without the need for religious clap trap. My belief is that the evidence we have is in line with variations on more than one theory of creation.
I could just agree with you that there is no NEED for a creator (my normal stance) but where's the fun in that? RE Tweaker, I may be guilty of misinterpreting his posts or not reading all his posts correctly. (Go on berate me you know I like it!)
Tweaker,
Your posts come across as a little enigmatic, could you elucidate.
Keyplus,
If Tweaker doesn't want to argue do you fancy stepping in and answering my questions above.
I'm not trying too hard to convice anyone the Universe WAS created by a sentient being just open up the possibility it COULD HAVE been without the need for religious clap trap. My belief is that the evidence we have is in line with variations on more than one theory of creation.
I could just agree with you that there is no NEED for a creator (my normal stance) but where's the fun in that? RE Tweaker, I may be guilty of misinterpreting his posts or not reading all his posts correctly. (Go on berate me you know I like it!)
Tweaker,
Your posts come across as a little enigmatic, could you elucidate.
Keyplus,
If Tweaker doesn't want to argue do you fancy stepping in and answering my questions above.
Good morning all.
People should believe what they want to believe.(Life after death) - Weather it be a deep sleep or which heaven we are chosen to go to (depending on how we spend our time on earth). Which ever way you look at it, the misery ends when we pass. It's not up to me to tell you to believe, I found peace through the bible, much of it I think are metaphors - to a peaceful life. Proverbs for example, can be looked at in two very different ways - evil or good.
I delved deeper and studied the Nag Hammadi codex's because they were written in the time of Jesus and not after. The gospel of Thomas says Jesus is more human which is why Irenaeus classed the NM coptic's as heretical and stopped them entering the bible because they we not holy enough.
The Qur'an has lots of (not so metaphorical) ways to live. Islamic views on a merciful God, each Sura starts with 'In the name of God, the Lord of Mercy, the Giver of Mercy'.
Book 10 JONAH stresses God's power the authenticity of their scripts and the fate of evil doers provokes God's anger.
So my point. One has to seek, and one will find. But one has to want to in the first place, and alone. Not led by others.
People should believe what they want to believe.(Life after death) - Weather it be a deep sleep or which heaven we are chosen to go to (depending on how we spend our time on earth). Which ever way you look at it, the misery ends when we pass. It's not up to me to tell you to believe, I found peace through the bible, much of it I think are metaphors - to a peaceful life. Proverbs for example, can be looked at in two very different ways - evil or good.
I delved deeper and studied the Nag Hammadi codex's because they were written in the time of Jesus and not after. The gospel of Thomas says Jesus is more human which is why Irenaeus classed the NM coptic's as heretical and stopped them entering the bible because they we not holy enough.
The Qur'an has lots of (not so metaphorical) ways to live. Islamic views on a merciful God, each Sura starts with 'In the name of God, the Lord of Mercy, the Giver of Mercy'.
Book 10 JONAH stresses God's power the authenticity of their scripts and the fate of evil doers provokes God's anger.
So my point. One has to seek, and one will find. But one has to want to in the first place, and alone. Not led by others.
hey flobadob,
glad you are here, you've started a great debate! One though I think cannot be settled until we all pass - and even then....!
What ever anyone thinks - we all end up not being 'being's' and return to the unknown, say.
All these questions asked here though, I would advise (as I have done) to research the books I've talked about and let those decide themselves. Is the human race so unconfident and possibly frightened of the unknown we start debates?
glad you are here, you've started a great debate! One though I think cannot be settled until we all pass - and even then....!
What ever anyone thinks - we all end up not being 'being's' and return to the unknown, say.
All these questions asked here though, I would advise (as I have done) to research the books I've talked about and let those decide themselves. Is the human race so unconfident and possibly frightened of the unknown we start debates?
Tweaker, the problem I would have with taking those books as truth are that many of them were written years if not centuries after the events in question, so are more based on hearsay and assumption, much like if you or I were to write about something that happened in the 1600s. We would have no first hand knowledge of what we were talking about.
I base my beliefs basically on how I feel inside, just by thinking things through and I don't think I'll ever be able to accept the notion of a God in the biblical sense watching over us all. It just does not make any sense to me.
I base my beliefs basically on how I feel inside, just by thinking things through and I don't think I'll ever be able to accept the notion of a God in the biblical sense watching over us all. It just does not make any sense to me.
well the Nag Hammadi WAS written in the time of Christ, the events in question. Funny how all the New Testament scripts are written after his death.
This is the copy I own. Plus various gospels.
Go here: http://www.amazon.co....qid=1276012570&sr=8-2
Or: http://www.amazon.co....qid=1276012663&sr=8-1
This is the copy I own. Plus various gospels.
Go here: http://www.amazon.co....qid=1276012570&sr=8-2
Or: http://www.amazon.co....qid=1276012663&sr=8-1
I've heard of the Nag Hammadi. I do accept that there is a good chance that Jesus Christ was real but there are loads of people who claim to talk to God, it's just that Jesus seems to have been taken up more readily than others. It's a different debate than this one and as I say I started this one in the context of a different question I asked http://www.theanswerb...e/Question899928.html and was simply trying to find what people think are the traits of a God I suppose. Is our creator God, or even is our creators' creator God?
History has demonstrated time and again that people who believe what they want to believe, without reason, just because they want to, are a menace to themselves and to those with whom they interact.
God is an attempt to imbue a disinterested unbiased reality with a personality (one's own). The first step to obtaining an objective view of reality is removing that which lies between you and your perception of it, the prejudice of preconceived notions . . . not that reality is necessarily what one is after in the first place. But to make reality what one would like it to be one must first understand what is possible within the framework of reality and how to bring about the changes that make that which is possible what is real.
God is a post script to reality, not a prescription for reality. God is not an explanation of anything but an excuse to refrain from seeking explanations positing that explanations are unavailable and inaccessible to the mind He is asserted to have provided humanity with so that we can adore the beauty of His creation while having no means to establish its inherent value and realise its potential worth.
God is an attempt to imbue a disinterested unbiased reality with a personality (one's own). The first step to obtaining an objective view of reality is removing that which lies between you and your perception of it, the prejudice of preconceived notions . . . not that reality is necessarily what one is after in the first place. But to make reality what one would like it to be one must first understand what is possible within the framework of reality and how to bring about the changes that make that which is possible what is real.
God is a post script to reality, not a prescription for reality. God is not an explanation of anything but an excuse to refrain from seeking explanations positing that explanations are unavailable and inaccessible to the mind He is asserted to have provided humanity with so that we can adore the beauty of His creation while having no means to establish its inherent value and realise its potential worth.
God is not all knowing but the glorification of complete ignorance.
God is not all powerful but the alleged relegater of authority to use against those whose only desire is to live their own life, free from the dictated whims of others with reality as their only law and final arbiter of their conformity to absolute truth.
God is not a creator but a creation, an attempt to rewrite reality to conform to ones own fiction of what they would like it to be in lieu of the will to put forth the effort of mind and body to make it what it could be and should be.
Reason is the only tool at are disposal for determining that God does not and by His alleged nature logically cannot exist. To the extent you are able to use that tool, consistently and without reservation you will be liberated from the delusion of God and freed to pursue the reality of your dreams.
God is not all powerful but the alleged relegater of authority to use against those whose only desire is to live their own life, free from the dictated whims of others with reality as their only law and final arbiter of their conformity to absolute truth.
God is not a creator but a creation, an attempt to rewrite reality to conform to ones own fiction of what they would like it to be in lieu of the will to put forth the effort of mind and body to make it what it could be and should be.
Reason is the only tool at are disposal for determining that God does not and by His alleged nature logically cannot exist. To the extent you are able to use that tool, consistently and without reservation you will be liberated from the delusion of God and freed to pursue the reality of your dreams.
It`s been really interesting reading everyones ideas on religion. I think it all boils down to go with whatever works for you.Just one thing though if god created the world who created God and if it all boils down to the Big Bang theory where did the universe come from. Seems to me we will never know as its a case of which came first the chicken or the egg !!!
Yes.
I without doubt know that something our 'universe' needed to be created, and with creation, there needs to be a creator. Now in the Old Testament 4004 years is what the date of of life equal's up to. And we both know that the world has been here many years previous. I also believe Darwin, and (a funny thing) in the T.V program 'the Sopranos' Tony is told by a priest - there's something else beyond . However his Son(I think) say's if the world started from say, Genesis, and the garden of eden was tranquility, then Adam and Eve would be running around sh*t scared from dinosaurs!
So as funny as that is let one believe what they wish.
What I believe in makes my life peaceful, and if thats all the Bible was supposed to do then so be it - I'm happy.
I without doubt know that something our 'universe' needed to be created, and with creation, there needs to be a creator. Now in the Old Testament 4004 years is what the date of of life equal's up to. And we both know that the world has been here many years previous. I also believe Darwin, and (a funny thing) in the T.V program 'the Sopranos' Tony is told by a priest - there's something else beyond . However his Son(I think) say's if the world started from say, Genesis, and the garden of eden was tranquility, then Adam and Eve would be running around sh*t scared from dinosaurs!
So as funny as that is let one believe what they wish.
What I believe in makes my life peaceful, and if thats all the Bible was supposed to do then so be it - I'm happy.
