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you think there's a god? really??
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okay religious people, can you explain to me why your God lets such bad things happen, please? I am bemused.
apart from what we hear/see on the news, I had a terrible childhood, I've grown up and seen such bad things happen to good people (and vice versa), and this week my daughter's 16 year old friend died in a dreadful accident.
I'm not after sympathy.. you've probably all been through something similar.
but why does your God allow such things to happen?
apart from what we hear/see on the news, I had a terrible childhood, I've grown up and seen such bad things happen to good people (and vice versa), and this week my daughter's 16 year old friend died in a dreadful accident.
I'm not after sympathy.. you've probably all been through something similar.
but why does your God allow such things to happen?
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well, I should have stayed up til 4am, apparently!
thanks for all your answers. DEN, I'm so sorry about your friend x
joko, you were completely wrong with your first post but I see snags put you right. I don't take other people's wrongs as my own, I was merely pointing out the unfairness of a terrible situation.
thanks for all your answers. DEN, I'm so sorry about your friend x
joko, you were completely wrong with your first post but I see snags put you right. I don't take other people's wrongs as my own, I was merely pointing out the unfairness of a terrible situation.
It depends on your idea og God.
The traditional response is that much of it is down to man's free will.
That's not a good response because we can then ask is there then free will in heaven? and work along that track - the believer might say God can work miracles and there is no suffering in heaven yet there is free will - we ask then why God doesn't work such miracles on Earth and are told - it's a mystery
It's a mystery is a typical answer when the theologian starts along the path of logic and hits an inevitable contradiction.
Dualist faiths like Zoroastrianism or various Christian heresies like the Cathars have/had a better angle.
Certainly for the Cathars the world was the creation of an evil or at least corrupted God and all the misfortune and suffering was his creation. We are forever reincarnated until by living a perfect life we escape to the ethereal spiritual God who has little interaction with our Earthly world.
If I ever abandondoned Athiesm I think I'd try to rekindle Catharism
The traditional response is that much of it is down to man's free will.
That's not a good response because we can then ask is there then free will in heaven? and work along that track - the believer might say God can work miracles and there is no suffering in heaven yet there is free will - we ask then why God doesn't work such miracles on Earth and are told - it's a mystery
It's a mystery is a typical answer when the theologian starts along the path of logic and hits an inevitable contradiction.
Dualist faiths like Zoroastrianism or various Christian heresies like the Cathars have/had a better angle.
Certainly for the Cathars the world was the creation of an evil or at least corrupted God and all the misfortune and suffering was his creation. We are forever reincarnated until by living a perfect life we escape to the ethereal spiritual God who has little interaction with our Earthly world.
If I ever abandondoned Athiesm I think I'd try to rekindle Catharism
It is quite remarkable how similar Catharism was to Hinduism and Budhism considering that it was a 12 Century belief.
The beautiful Blues in illuminated manuscripts cam from Lapus Lazuli from Afghanistan probably changing hands a dozen times on route - the Monks had no idea that Afghanistan even existed.
It seems as if ideas as well as stones made their way into medieval Europe from the far East.
Of course the Cathars were all horribly slaughtered but we'll skip over that
The beautiful Blues in illuminated manuscripts cam from Lapus Lazuli from Afghanistan probably changing hands a dozen times on route - the Monks had no idea that Afghanistan even existed.
It seems as if ideas as well as stones made their way into medieval Europe from the far East.
Of course the Cathars were all horribly slaughtered but we'll skip over that
Assuming a deity exists they would chose not normally to interfere in this learning experience called life as it would change the situation to the extent that it no longer fulfilled its purpose. What we see as terrible tragedies they see in the bigger picture as necessary experiences, and a vanishing small part of our total existence.
But if a diety exists theists tell you he interfears on a daily basis, he answers prayers and performs miracles. See Chiliean miners, saved through gods grace, this of course shows that god is a show off, because if he was going to save them, why imperil them in the first place. Also see single survivor of earthquake that kills thousands, one person pulled from the rubble after a week "a miracle"
Just like your choice of diety to support, your interpretation very much relies on the circumstance you wish to belive he/she exists in.
Theists are nothing if not adaptable, however as there are no actual facts to comply with its easy to be adaptable.
As Voltaire said "If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him"
Just like your choice of diety to support, your interpretation very much relies on the circumstance you wish to belive he/she exists in.
Theists are nothing if not adaptable, however as there are no actual facts to comply with its easy to be adaptable.
As Voltaire said "If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him"
I don't normally come on to this site as you can't argue with the blind , but to pick up on a couple of points.
1. If the universe had to have a creator, then the creator had to have a creator, then the creator who created the creator had to have etc etc.. So its not a logical argument.
2. keyplus // And the person involved may escape punishment in this world but will not do in the hereafter and that is another reason I believe that there is God.// How do you know that ?
You are free to believe it but there is not an atom of proof that God exists, or that we will be punished for our sins. You obviously need the belief in a god . It is a crutch which you and millions more need to cope with life, but that is all it is a crutch.
You believe because you want to believe , and that renders you blind to reallity.
3. We are told God will look after us . Plainly that is not true. Very often the good suffer and the bad thrive.
4. We are told God listens and answers our prayers. For every prayer that appears to be answered ( and there's no proof ) there are millions that are not.
5. //why does your God allow such things to happen?//
He/It does not allow or not allow. He/It exists only in your minds therefore the point doesn't arise.
1. If the universe had to have a creator, then the creator had to have a creator, then the creator who created the creator had to have etc etc.. So its not a logical argument.
2. keyplus // And the person involved may escape punishment in this world but will not do in the hereafter and that is another reason I believe that there is God.// How do you know that ?
You are free to believe it but there is not an atom of proof that God exists, or that we will be punished for our sins. You obviously need the belief in a god . It is a crutch which you and millions more need to cope with life, but that is all it is a crutch.
You believe because you want to believe , and that renders you blind to reallity.
3. We are told God will look after us . Plainly that is not true. Very often the good suffer and the bad thrive.
4. We are told God listens and answers our prayers. For every prayer that appears to be answered ( and there's no proof ) there are millions that are not.
5. //why does your God allow such things to happen?//
He/It does not allow or not allow. He/It exists only in your minds therefore the point doesn't arise.
Does God really care about us?
God never causes what is wicked. "Far be it from God to act wickedly, and the Almighty to act unjustly!" says Job 34:10. God has a loving purpose for humans. That is why Jesus taught us to pray: "Our Father in the heavens, let ... your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth." (Mathew 6:9, 10) God cares so deeply about us that he gone to great lenghts to make the fulfillment of his purpose a certainty- John 3:16
Genesis 1:26-28; James 1:13 and Peter 5:6,7
Anyway God didn't make the world wicked Satan and man have done that. God is basicly watching from afar and will pick up the peices when we have proven to ourselves we are incapable of governing ourselves without conflict.
God never causes what is wicked. "Far be it from God to act wickedly, and the Almighty to act unjustly!" says Job 34:10. God has a loving purpose for humans. That is why Jesus taught us to pray: "Our Father in the heavens, let ... your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth." (Mathew 6:9, 10) God cares so deeply about us that he gone to great lenghts to make the fulfillment of his purpose a certainty- John 3:16
Genesis 1:26-28; James 1:13 and Peter 5:6,7
Anyway God didn't make the world wicked Satan and man have done that. God is basicly watching from afar and will pick up the peices when we have proven to ourselves we are incapable of governing ourselves without conflict.
I have to disagree with modeller's point 1
It's similar to the question of "What caused the big bang"
We won't get into this here - there have been enought threads in science on it. But at the Heart of it is that time itself "started" at that point.
Now there's nothing to stop the religious applying that same argument to God that we apply to the big bang (apart of course for the minor fact that we have some evidence).
Instead we have to apply Occam's razor to this and say the simplest argument is right.
We don't "need" God to explain the origin of the Universe any more than Chistians need a giant Robot called Sparky to have created God.
Of course Occam's Razor is simply a philosophical premise there are plenty of examples where the simplest example is wrong
It's similar to the question of "What caused the big bang"
We won't get into this here - there have been enought threads in science on it. But at the Heart of it is that time itself "started" at that point.
Now there's nothing to stop the religious applying that same argument to God that we apply to the big bang (apart of course for the minor fact that we have some evidence).
Instead we have to apply Occam's razor to this and say the simplest argument is right.
We don't "need" God to explain the origin of the Universe any more than Chistians need a giant Robot called Sparky to have created God.
Of course Occam's Razor is simply a philosophical premise there are plenty of examples where the simplest example is wrong
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