What advice would you have given?

[ettelloc]

I went to see my friend earlier who asked for my advice. Just wondering what you would have said. Here goes...... Friend let's call eve is with boyfriend 'adam' have to children aged 4 & 2 and one on the way. Adams mum let's call Mary has a boyfriend 'joseph' who she had a child to 20 some tears ago and us now back in the scene and has been for about a year or so. Mary has the children with Joseph overnight every other Saturday. A couple if months ago Mary and Joseph told Adam and eve that in the 70s Joseph was done fir having some sort of relations with a minor and they should expect a call from social services. Yesterday social services called to make an appointment to see Adam and eve. Adam and eve were told Joseph also has a similar charge in 2006 bearing in mind hs would have been in his 50s at least and they also said he was HIV positive. They told eve that they would only want Joseph in contact with the children if mary was present. Now Adam and eve are left with the decision of letting Mary and Joseph see the children.
What would you do? I don't think I've missed anything. I dont know exactly what happened with the minors or how old they were or if Joseph actually got charged.

[bednobs]

not really enough info for her t make a decision - i would talk it over with both mary and joseph

[boxtops]

It sounds as if they think Joseph is still a risk to small children. Mary and Joseph pre-warned them so they knew it was coming - I'd go back to social services and see if you can find out more. I know it sounds horrible to contemplate, but Mary might be in on the behaviour, it wouldn't be the first time that a wife/girlfriend has stood by while abuse takes place.

[momcj]

To be honest i would not risk it and only let them see them when i was there too- def no overnight stays- not worth the risk.

[ettelloc]

Bednobs that's what u said. Mary is kind of pushing for eve to make the decision. I said it's nit something that can be done overnight it's a lit of information to take in.
Boxtops when Adam called mary to ask about the 2006 incident and the HIV she said she didn't know about the HIV but she wasn't shocked or angry so I think you may be right.

[sherrardk]

I'm with momcj on this one - I would talk it through with Mary and Joseph (after gaffer taping my husband's mouth shut to stop him saying something he probably shouldn't) but I wouldn't risk any unsupervised visits (even if it meant missing out on a 'night off' every fortnight).

[boxtops]

Sad, ettelloc - I would tread very carefully then. momcj is right - don't leave the little ones alone with either of them.

[lcg]

similar thing happened with my hubbys mother and her boyfriend - i never took my son there again (who was 1 at the time). his mother kicked up a stink and refused to can the boyfriend, so no-one spoke to her again. quite simple where children are involved, really. if there's any doubt (and clearly there is) you just don't do it - to even contemplate it for 1 nights babysitting a week is disgusting and i wouldn't care if jesus himself was present...my kids wouldn't go there full stop if the man in question was present and i also wouldn't give a flying sh!t what my partner said. that is what you should say to your friend...if you are any type of friend at all (and i'm sure you are, otherwise you wouldn't be asking!) x

[lcg]

i can't believe any of you are even contemplating taking the kids there during the day! you cannot watch the kids every second...and that's all it takes. he clearly has a history and current record with children and if the gran is even remotely complicit (by not being surprised or allowing him in her house) then she is just as warped in the mind. she is clearly not expressing good judgement about this man, so i'd leave well alone. pffft - rant over x

[bubbly2000]

its their job as parents to protect their children, no matter what, and if Mary n Joseph were reasonable and understanding they would be happy with supervised visits to keep the family together. Hard luck about a night off every now and again, they wouldn'enjoy it anyway as they would constantly be wondering if the children were ok

[karenmac60]

Have to agree with lcg here. No chance of either of them seeing the kids again if it were me.

[China Doll]

The social worker told you he was HIV positive? That's suprising, I didn't think they were able to give out that sort of information. I would want to know what the charge was exactly in terms of relations with a minor but only because I am nosey.

Otherwise I would listen to the social workers. They're probably not just visiting for the good of their health.

[Jemisa]

I wouldn't be asking others for advice, I'd be doing what my gut told me.
If there's any doubt - Back out.

jem

[tigwig]

If it were me there is no way I would ever allow the man unsupervised access to my children. In fact it would be a massive struggle to allow him any access at all but this would depend on exactly what he had done. The whole thought makes me feel very uneasy and I dont believe that people who commit any types of crime against children can ever be cured. There is always a risk and I wouldnt want to involve my children in anything like that.

[maclarencat]

Why has this just come to light if he has been back in her life for over a year. Has she known all the time and only told them because she knew they were about to find aout from SS I would advise dont take the children anywhere near where he is

[ettelloc]

Mclaren that's right. Mary has a daughter who is in a court battle with hers sons father over custody and all family members are being vetted so it looks as though Mary has just told them before they find out from anyone else. As I mentioned earlier she said she knew nothing of the HIV but didn't seemed bothered. If it was me who just found out my partner was HIV positive I'd have something to say.

[lcg]

etelloc....i'd have something to say about all of it, frankly (as you can see from my earlier posts). i can only imagine 'mary' is blinded by her feelings for this man and not appreciating the gravity of his past and fairly recent behaviour. that, however, is no excuse for turning a blind eye to the situation and if it were me 'choosing' between my children/grandchildren and some bloke, i'd certainly be crystal clear about my choice. it may also be worth pointing out that others may also find out about this man's past and diagnosis (stranger things have happened) and she may also be targeted as his partner and for what others may see as her condoning his behaviour. another reason for her kicking him into touch, imo. please, please impress upon your friend that she must NOT let her children have any contact with this man (even supervised, as mary does not seem to be displaying responsible behaviour) as he may well have the opportunity to abuse them. your friend is old enough to protect herself, but her children are not - and as such should protect them herself by removing the absolute risk that he poses x

[roxie_09]

Wouldn't risk it, people like that never change! And I think someone pointed out in a previous post, you can't keep an eye on the children every second, and Joseph will definitely make the most of it. As for Mary being 'in on it' sounds quite possible, even if she just has an inclin (sp?) and not acting on it. Definately not worth it x

[lcg]

thank god! somebody with an incling of common sense! thank you, roxy - you are so right...joseph sounds like a whole bag of trouble waiting to happen. for all any of us know, has it already happened? has he abused any of the children...at that age, nobody may know for sure (god forbid)...and what if he has infected mary with hiv? without any of these answers, i'd be hopping mad and wanting answers. i hope to god he has been 'outed' before any damage has been done and the family should demand answers of both mary and joseph before even considering seeing them on home turf. he sounds like every family's nightmare x

[roxie_09]

LCG, completely agree with you, if something has already happend (hope to God it hasn't) it's not just now that's affected it's their whole life, especially if they have been infected. In my opinion people like that should be locked up for good, don't care if 'they've done their time' x

[lcg]

i feel so strongly about it as it's a subject tht is uncomfortably close to home. i can't believe earlier posters were suggesting taking the children round there. i'd rather walk on hot coals or chop something off with a rusty spoon. preferably...his bits x