Ebay Dispute.

[divegirl]

Hi,
I recently bought from Ebay a dress [£39.99 + £3.99 P&P] from Hong Kong [yes it was the one in Shopping for anyone that may have seen that thread]. It arrived within 3 days so doubtful that it came from HK and is awful.
I know that alone is not grounds for a refund but luckily for us they sent the wrong design too.
I opened a dispute and after a bit of too'ing and fro'ing the seller said he would issue a full refund... Ebay whoever will not allow him to do this with out me returning the dress to HK at my own expense of £54.18 :0/

I have spoken on the phone to Ebay and they will not budge on this. I have also emailed the seller privately to say this is not good enough.

Can I, and is it worth opening a dispute with Paypal too, or should I wait it out a while?

Lisa x

[woofgang]

I would be opening a paypal dispute....it might not get you anywhere but it couldn't hurt.

[hc4361]

divegirl, he could issue you a full refund without going through eBay. He could send you £44.00 to your email address via PayPal.

Report the seller to Trading Standards as I very much doubt that this item came so quickly from HK but it is a very good way of trying to evade UK laws such as the Distance Selling Regs which would make the seller liable for the cost of return postage as the item is 'not as described'.

[divegirl]

Thank you for your replies.

I will give the seller 24 hours to respond [its around 7pm in HK right now]. And if he doesn't reply I'll take it to PP. I agree on the Trading standards bit too. I have had items arrive fast from China etc but not that fast!

Lisa x

[tonywiltshire]

Assuming you are a private individual and this purchase was not business to business the Consumer protection (distance selling) Regulations 2000, will apply. These regulations give you 7 days to inspect the goods and the supplier, with whom you have a contract, is not permitted to insist you are not refunded until such time as the goods are returned and must have warned of a requirement to pay the return cost of goods, to expect you to return the goods to Hong Kong should be challenged.
Remind them of their responsibility under the DSR.

[mrs_overall]

Hi Lisa
I have to ask - where did you get the figure of £54.18 for postage from? I have a current Royal Mail postage cost leaflet to hand and I cannot see how returning a dress could cost this much

[divegirl]

Thank you, it would be outside of the 7 days now but the the dispute was opened immediately on receipt of the dress. I will point this out to Ebay and the seller and inform them that they did not inform me of my rights.

I am pretty confident of them finding in my favour eventually, its just a pain having to go through all this.
[I will also be verbally killing my daughter that proclaimed this was the dress she just 'had to have', who has since bought another dress on the local High Road!!!!]

Lisa x

[divegirl]

Hey Mrs O, I went on the Parcel Force website, the dress has to be tracked and I think this is what inflates the price.

Lisa x

[mrs_overall]

blimey, that price is scandalous

[ELVIS68]

I think Parcel Force is a lot dearer than Royal Mail and I'm sure they offer a tracking service.

Btw, isn't there anywhere nearer you could have bought it?....it's only dress after all

[mrs_overall]

Lisa, if you give me a rough idea of the weight, Royal Mail (International Signed For) is going to be cheaper than that

[divegirl]

On the package as it arrived it states 500 grams. The postage here was £3.99 and though it has a receipt printed in Chinese there was no way it came from HK as it arrived [via Hayes] in three days.
The real issue is I don't see why I should have to pay any postage as they sent the wrong dress anyway.
I never mentioned how badly made it was and the fact number 2 child would not have been seen dead in it. It was pure luck that the dress they sent had a different back and allowed me to pursue the wring item sent clause.
I warned her it would end in tears... little did I know they would be mine lol

Have to pop out for a bit... back in an hour

Lisa x

[mrs_overall]

Lisa, a package weighing 500g or under to Hong Kong which has to be signed for is £13.50 with Royal Mail

[hc4361]

Tony, does those Regs and Laws apply if you buy the goods outside UK and Europe?
The seller is purporting to be in HK.

[tonywiltshire]

Thank you for your question hc. In my opinion this will be considered a UK sale and there will be a UK address particularly as the delivery price was only £3.99 yet return of goods price is £54.18.

[hc4361]

Thank you for taking the time to reply, Tony. As I understand it the registered address is in HK. In my opinion the seller is trying to evade UK consumer laws.

If the seller IS in HK but the transaction is via the eBay UK website, would UK laws apply?

*Sorry, divegirl, but it is relevant to your initial post*

[joko]

yes, they know no-one in their right mind will post a £40 dress for £54 - so they get away with selling shoddy goods.

they may well be in HK, but have a uk distributer - basically just a person who gets stuff the in bulk and posts it out locally for them.

the fact that the return is because they sent the wrong dress, rather than just you changing your mind, then they must pay the return costs too - just because a seller writes on their listings 'buyer pays return postage' - does not mean they can get around distance selling regs

im having a similar problem right now actually - bought a dress - and they sent the wrong one.
i asked them to send the right one, or a refund including both sets of postage - and bizarrely they argued and argued saying it wasn't their policy to refund original postage costs - only the cost of return (but not recorded delivery)

i argued and argued back, on principle, that they are at fault, not me, so i should not be out of pocket, even by one pence.

eventually they have agreed to refund everything - because, surprise surprise, the dress i ordered is no longer available
(i suspect they sent the wrong one on purpose, hoping i wouldn't mind, as the one i bought became out of stock the day after i purchased it)

but they still had the nerve to moan because about 3-4 words were capitalised in my last email, saying mistakes happen, im only human etc
haha ... I had said the same thing about 4 times already!
i felt like capitalising the whole blimmin email! - it was like trying to get through to a rock!
she even insinuated i was lying and that i had received the correct dress ... i had to send her a photo of it, and a pic of the one i ordered, before she finally accepted it was different!

This is a uk address thankfully and the postage is only £2 but it was the principle of it.


i would tell them you will be launching a dispute, if they do not cover the return costs.
also say something like -
"I am happy to post it back to your uk depot if you can give me the address - I assume you have one, because clearly this item did not come from hongkong - in 3 days, and only cost £4"

[divegirl]

lol@ joko with your writing in capitals. I have been sending my emails in the plainest English I can muster and capitalising the words 'YOUR MISTAKE' etc.

I'm going to give the guy till the morning to get back to me and then open a dispute with Paypal too, from the reading I have done today it looks like they may be the better bet.

Thank you all for you replies.

Lisa x

[tonywiltshire]

Thank you hc, I agree with your analysis and if a contract has been entered into outside the UK there could be all sorts of problems not the least of which will be the law & jurisdiction, but I do not believe this matter will end in court if it did I would argue UK law should apply, it would be for the court to decide.

[hc4361]

Yes, I agree, Tony. It's not straightforward at all with the HK element.

However, PayPal and eBay usually insist that problematic goods are returned before the buyer is given a refund - which usually makes good sense. The buyer should not be left with both refund and the goods.
Getting return postage refunded from eBay or PayPal is a whole new ball game, usually insignificant if the postage is nominal compared to the value of the item.

I will be very interested in the outcome. I wish you well with this, divegirl, I hate cheats.

[EDDIE51]

Ebay rules are very specific on this , the item MUST be returned by a recorded delivery service before a refund can be made. But if the item was 'not as described' as seems the case here the seller should refund the return postage.
But £54 seems very high for' International signed for' post to HK how much does the dress and packing weigh ?
Are you quoting Royal Mail prices ? Parcel Force are much higher but Royal Mail take parcels up to 2Kg max that should be more than enough for a dress.
Or look for a courier I just sent a 7Kg parcel to east europe for under £30 with full tracking.