Redundancy Questions

[Lakitu]

I'll try to have this make sense, I'm still in a bit of a tizz though....
I started seriously looking for new employment around Autumn time last year. On Monday past, one of the agencies called about a role, sent me the job spec and after a read through, I agreed for my CV to be submitted for it.
At lunchtime today, my Manager took me aside and handed me a letter asking me to meet with him and HR tomorrow as my role is now at risk of redundancy. He told me that tomorrow, HR will go through the procedure with me but basically they have 30 days to redeploy me and if they can't I'm given 30 days notice and sent on my way.
Needless to say I've been ill with the thought of not being able to pay my mortgage,
I want to tell you about the structure of my department:
- Associate Procurement Specialist (the juniors)
- Procurement Specialist (next step up but not supervisor and is also MY role)
- Senior Procurement Specialist (Supervisors)
- Procurement Manager

Now, he told me that it's ONLY the role of the Procurement Specialist that is at risk (there's 3 of us). Everyone is staff except one of the Associate Procurement Specialists, who is contractor.

My first question is, is my employer breaching anything by saving a contractor over a member of staff, regardless of the role? As far as I know, the only difference between the role's is the amount of money we can spend, i.e the Associates have a limit of $50,000 and no corporate credit card and I have a limit of $200,000 and a �50,000 limit card, so I'm really not seeing what the difference is if it's my role or the other role at risk.

Continued....

[Lakitu]

Right, half an hour ago I got a call from the Agency and he told me that the Company he submitted my CV to have said I don't have the correct experience for the role, however, my CV had landed on the right desk because they were "impressed" with my CV and want to talk to me about a role that has not been advertised but they need someone to fill it. He told me the role and asked if I'd be interested. Obviously I'd sweep the streets if it means paying my mortgage, as it happens, I genuinely am interested in it and told him.

5 minutes later he called and said that they are saying it's a contractor position - minimum 12 month contract and told me the day rate and am I OK with that. They day rate is good (better than what I'm on), so I said that was fine.
He called back again 5 minutes later to say that they want to see me on Monday lunchtime.

On to my next questions LOL

- I have to give a month notice to my current employer, if I get this job (please cross your fingers!), could I say NOTHING to my current employer about it, then when the 30 days are up hope that they have found nothing for me and pay me the redundancy package?

- If they DO manage to redeply me, can I turn down the role and still get the redundancy package?

- If I was offered the job on Monday, could I approach my current employer and volunteer redundancy?

Sorry it's long winded.

[thugulike]

Lakitu you may struggle to find an answer here as this is primarily a UK site. A redundancy payment is really compensation for your loss of security, ie employment protection. I know that in the USA things are very different but if you can, I would have no qualms in accepting a redundancy payment and the new job as a contractor.

[Lakitu]

I am in the UK :o/

Whta made you think I'm not British? LOL

[mrs_overall]

Hi again.
I can't answer the part about the contractor over the staff part of your question.
As regards another part of your Q, yes, if they offer to redeploy you, you can turn it down and take redundancy. I know this is right as Mr O is in the identical situation right now. He sought advice from his union rep and from HR. He's actually got a letter setting out details of what his redundancy package would be. He's in the same position as you with regards a new job - he should hear if he's got it by the end of the month. If he gets it, he will grab the redundancy and go.
If he doesn't get the new job he's chasing, he is going to take the redeployment job his firm are offering. He will still be job hunting. If he finds a new job after he has been redeployed he can still get his redundancy package by saying he has tried the redeployed job but does not like it.
If you get offered the new job on Monday, DO NOT resign but tell your employer you are volunteering for redundancy. Don't let them get wind of your new job.
BTW, if you take the redeployed job, then find a new job and tell your employer you have changed your mind and hate the redeployed job, you redundancy package will be slightly less than if you hadn't taken the redeployed job.
I hope this makes sense! xx

[Lakitu]

Mrs O you are an absolute super star! Thank you SO much for all of that wonderful information.

I'm hopeful for this job on Monday, it's promising that they saw my CV and thought about a job that hadn't even been advertised and from what I can gather, I'm the only person they're going to see.

I've not said a word to any of them in my department about it, so no chance it will be queried if I *do* get it.

Thanks again Mrs O, you've helped me on the path to not feeling so sick.

Best of luck to your hubby too, please let me know how it turns out xxx

[mrs_overall]

Glad to be of help Lakitu.
I understand how you feel. When Mr O came home and first mentioned the word "redundancy" I felt ill. Once we'd looked into it we found the situation wasn't half as bad as envisaged.
Things WILL turn out OK for you. Fingers crossed for you on Monday.....and keep us posted and I will do likewise.
PS
I think thugulik thinks you're in the US cos your figures were all in dollars lol. xx

[thugulike]

If you turn down an offer of redeployment which is deemed to be reasonable you will have dismissed yourself and may not receive any redundancy. That is the law in the UK. Lakitu I thought you were in the USA as you mentioned dollars.
Mr overall may receive it but that may be contractual and not statutory. Please check on the ACAS site. I am correct.

[Lakitu]

Ah right, sorry, of course I hadn't though about the Dollar part. The Company works in Dollars for reasons I forget :o)

Thank you for that info, if they offer me a job that is not in Procurement, then that will be good reason for me to turn it down. Thanks again.

[mrs_overall]

Thugulike, I am only repeating what my husband has been told from his union and from HR.
Maybe my husbands firm have their own rules (it's a very well known international business)?
He has been given in writing details of the amount he would recieve for redundancy and has also been told what the reduction in his redundancy will be if he does not want to continue with his redeployment job after he's tried it.

[Lakitu]

I wonder if my HR Rep will give me in writing what I'll receive should I be made reduntant.

[buildersmate]

I'm with thugulike on this one. The company MAY still decide that the redundancy can stand, but if they have found you a broadly job and you decide not to take it, they MAY say that you are not redundant.

In that situation, you would have to resign then take the employer to Employment Tribunal to try to get the redundancy to stand up. Much would depend on the analysis of 'broadly similar'.

[mrs_overall]

All you can do is wait and see what they have to say tomorrow.
Let us know how it goes.

[Lakitu]

I will, that meeting is 10.30.

I found out just before leaving work that people in the HSE dept were given their notice letters at the beginning of December, tomorrow is the cut off point to find something else for them and nothing has been found. It's not looking good for redeploying me if they're stuggling with others.

[wiggal]

Heya,

Just asked my fella as he is a contractor, and he says it is generally cheaper to employ contractors then permanent staff, due to the company not having to pay N.I, pension, health care and in some cases life insurance.

Also with contractors they only have a short notice period, so are therefore much easier and quicker to get rid off, along with them not having an employees contract.

[thugulike]

Lakitu, I wouldn't insist on a job in procurement. It only has to be 'reasonable alternative employment' What is reasonable can be argued in tribunal but that may be too late. If you have, for example, caring responsibilities and the redeployed job means you would get home from work much later then you could argue that it wasn't 'reasonable'. I've had tribunal cases where a grandparent didn't want to be redeployed to a job where he had to work Saturdays because he spent the day with his grandparents. He lost that case as tribunal considered to offer to be reasonable. He was then deemed to have dismissed himself and received no redundancy payment.

[Rosetta]

Good luck Lakitu, I hope you get that job on monday.

Mr R was also made redundant yesterday so I know how you are feeling.

[Lakitu]

Hi Thug,

I'm not going to insist on a job in procurement, butif they did manage to redeploy me and it's not procurement and I end up getting another job (of my choice and I want), then I could argue that the job they gave me was not suitable.

So say they gave me a secretarial job, I've never been a secretary, that's not my background so I could walk away taking the redundancy money with me.

I'm in with a shout that way because my background is buying and currently contracts, so other than getting stuck in accounts where I can actually use my skills there, I could argue it's not for me?

[GEEMAC]

Interesting thread. I particularly like thugulike's story about the grandparent who likes to spend Saturdays with his grandparents ; ) This is a great example of ab at its best. I don't really have anything to add to the debate except to say good luck, Lakitu.

[Lakitu]

Thank you, GEEMAC :o) x

[Lakitu]

I've had my meeting with HR. There are 3 of us at the same level in the same position and there are 2 jobs.

All 3 of us are going to be assessed and scored and the 2 that has the highest scores are getting the 2 jobs, leaving one still in the consultation period.

I've to give my CV to HR and it will be added to the redeployment list and Managers at this office and the offices around the world will have access to it and let me know if there is anything suitable at their location.

At the end of the meeting I was invited to ask questions and my only question was about voluntary redundancy (their jaws fell to the floor, it was comical to see), the HR rep said "Oh, I'm not sure if we have a voluntary redundancy policy, I'll check with the HR Manager and get back to you"

Surely a Company this size would have a policy??