Safety glass?

[mrs.chappie]

Our builder has re-used the outside door that was in our old kitchen and re-fitted it as a side door into the garage.

The number "BS5713-91" is on the beading between the two sheets of glass. The young building inspector says he will have to look into this to check if it's up to today's safety standards. He's going to speak to the older building inspector and get back to us.

Does anyone have any knowledge of "BS5713-91" please? I can't find anything of much use on the internet.

Thanks in advance. xxx

[kawakiri]

Some info. Media URL: http://www.firstchoice-windows.com/kitemarks.htm
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[mrs.chappie]

Thanks kawakiri. I've just tried to access that and I get a message saying the link appears to be broken. [o(

[kawakiri]

More technical info. Media URL: http://www.the-glazine.com/pages/en1279info.html
Description:

[mrs.chappie]

Thanks again kawakiri. I've looked at that link but cannot find a reference to BS5713.

Guess I'll just have to wait until the other building inspector gives his opinion.

[alavahalf]

I ordered a piece of glass for a side door (top half) a month ago. It was toughened, and cost me £36.00. so it's not too bad if you do have to change it..

[AlBags]

That's an early sealed double panel spec BSI, not involving toughening.
Safety (toughening) is a BS of 6206:1981 or later BS EN 12600:2002
You need toughened in garage door.
Either get a toughened double sealed panel made, or fit a piece of 6mm toughened to size.

[mrs.chappie]

Thanks very much for replies. I expect the glass won't be too expensive, but the builder's labour is quite costly. I wonder if he will be willing to redo the work at a lower price ... should he have known the glass would not be acceptable to the building inspector, or is it entirely our fault? (The builder suggested re-using the door).

[AlBags]

He probably didn't think about it. Just did what you asked.
Can't take long to swap.

[mrs.chappie]

That just it though AIBags, I didn't ask him. He suggested it be used so I agreed. As I have no knowledge of building rules and regs, I asked him before he fitted it, if it would pass the building inspection (I know these rules change over time). He said that it would. Seemed sensible as the door was used for many years as the main back door to the house. If it is suitable for the house, why not for the garage? I guess the onus was on me to check this out?

[wiltsman]

I agree with AlBags answer. The BS5713-91 serves only to give the specification for a hermetically sealed flat double glazing unit, and does not refer to toughened glass, so doesn't directly affect safety standards.

In a domestic glazed door, any glazing, whether single or double, below 1500mm from the bottom of the door must be of toughened glass,which will be recognized by the British Standard Kite Mark in a corner of the glazed unit.

I believe that before this safety standard was brought in, there were some particularly nasty accidents involving people falling down stairs and smashing into glazed doors, resulting in some horrific accidents due to the jagged shards of glass caused when normal float glass is broken.

[mrs.chappie]

Thanks very much wiltsman.

Please could someone give me an opinion on the following: I raised the point with the builder about the door needing to pass the building inspection. The builder (and he has been a builder for a very long time - over thirty years) told me that there wouldn't be a problem re-using the door.

It seems he was wrong. Should he take some of the blame (and agree to redo the work at a lower rate, I will buy the new glass) or is it all down to me for not checking his advice? (He has a good reputation but his work is VERY expensive - I've already spent an absolute fortune on the build).

[jackthehat]

Buying bew glass and asking him to fit it is one solution...........
However, you would have had to pay out for an entirely new door if he'd given his opinion the 'other way' which would have been considerably more expensive, I would have thought.

[jackthehat]

"What is bew glass ?" I hear you ask.
It's a bit like NEW glass, but for the fat-of-finger............:o(

[The Builder]

Mrs C .......... I, too have 30 years experience .......... and I still make mistakes!
Buy the glazing unit (you would have had to anyway), and I would fit it for free gladly ........... it's only a farty little job anyway!

[mrs.chappie]

Thanks jack and Builder.

I don't have a problem with buying new glass, or for that matter, a new door (it was the thought of paying the bill for the labour that was making me wince a bit, but I feel better now, knowing that it's not a long job to change the glass). I'm not looking forward to telling the builder as he's very confident in his view that the existing glass is fine for use in a garage door.

Actually, he doesn't half blow his own trumpet about his skills as a builder (and rightly so - he is very good). I can't imagine him admitting he has made a mistake over this though - don't know how he'll take it.

Oh well, I usually deal with this sort of thing but I'll see if I can talk the hubby into ringing him. [:o)

[mrs.chappie]

If anyone's looking in .... just thought I'd let you know that the building inspector has been this afternoon and suggested some sort of film that you stick onto the existing glass. I guess this toughens it. It's something we can do ourselves and it's inexpensive too. Result!

Thanks again all for your help. x

[wiltsman]

Glad it's all being sorted mrs chappie. I think the building inspector is using common sense and a bit of leeway here, bearing in mind the new location of the door. I presume he did recommended the film be used on both sides of the glass unit. That way should the glass break, the film will hold any shards in place.

The fact that your builder has over thirty years experience is maybe a problem, perhaps he's probably still working to regulations that were around when he first started his business.

I have to admit though, that the rules governing glazing seems to change almost every other year, but it still doesn't excuse your builder for not keeping up with them.

Many other trades such as gas fitters are required to go on regular courses to keep up with all the latest regulations, but sadly it doesn't seem to include builders.

Anyhow, it seems all's well that ends well!

[Nosha123]

Why blame the builder!!! So typical!!!
You ARE re using the door and not paying for a new one. So he saved u money! Yet it's his fault the glass had to be replaced!
No builder would accept liability for this and rightly so... U say he us a good builder yet he blows his own trumpet!!!
Unfair comment... If he is good why can't he say he is!
If u r quibbling over a bit if glass now... What will it be by the end if the job?
People r always soooo quick to blame the builder!

[mrs.chappie]

Thanks very much for that, wiltsman. I think you're spot on, the building inspector is giving us a bit of leeway ..... apparently he is also not 100 per cent happy with the lintel the builder has used either, but he has said he will pass it on this particular build, given that the door is in the garage.

We've kept the planning dept and building inspector informed all the way and I think it has worked in our favour. And yes, he has recommended the film be used on both sides.

Thanks again. x

[mrs.chappie]

Nosha - re-read the thread. I was actually asking if the builder should take SOME of the blame, along with myself for taking his word for it and not checking it out.