Applying for a VISA with a criminal record...

[taylor7]

Hi, i was wondering if anyome could help me with a huge issue that is worrying me to death.
In June i was caught shop lifting and went to the police station and signed some forms stating that i was guilty for what i did (as i was and is something i will regret doing for the rest of my life), and now i have a criminal record.
Im busy studying at the moment in South Africa and i would like to go over seas to work ( Nouvelle Caledonia to be presise) and i was wondering if i would be able to get a VISA to go overseas with my criminal record. Im not sure how it works and how to go about applying for a VISA. Is shop-lifting considered a serious offense? PLEASE HELP, it would really be appreciated. Thank you*

[Law Man1856]

Taylor,
You say you signed some forms at the police station, Did you go to court? Did an inspector issue you with a caution?
If you did'nt go to court you do not have a criminal conviction. It appears you have a Police caution which you do not need to disclose- it is a police record not a criminal conviction. You do not therefore need to apply for a VISA.

Hope this helps

LMan

[taylor7]

Lman, when i was caught, i was taken to the police station and i signed a form stating that i was gulity for what i did. The detective that arrived said that i can get a lawyer and go to court (and if i didnt have one they would appoint one to me) but i know what i did was wrong and there was no point in wasting time and money going to court, so i said i know i was guilty.

[taylor7]

P.S. LAw man, i think it is a criminal record because the detective was aksing me questions like why did i do what i did, etc and then he said toat i must realsise that i have a criminal record wfor the rest of my life now for what i did. He would'nt lie about something like that hey?

[Law Man1856]

Yes, But if you did not go to court you were cautioned. A magistrate needs to accept your guilty plea. if you did'nt go to court you were cautioned and therefore this is a police record not a criminal comviction. It is very important you remember if you went to court or not.

If you ask for a copy of your convictions from your local police station ( a section 40 enquiry ) it will cost you �10.
You will get a current registered list of Cautions and convictions from the Criminal Records Office at Scotland Yard.

Good luck LMan

[jno]

looks like you'll need a long stay visa

http://www.newcaledoniatourism-south.com/trave ltips.cfm?CFID=5325206&CFTOKEN=48444287

it's not clear whether your police incident happened in SA or not, or where you're a citizen of. But as Law Man says, a police record isn't a criminal record and the authorities in New Caledonia won't have access to it, or be interested in it either.

[taylor7]

Hello law man and jno, once again thanks for yur quick resposes. Lman, im one hundred percent that sure that i din't go to court, the reason being i didn't want my folks to find out. You say that you can only get a criminal record if the court magistrate hears your guilty plea, but if i plead guilty to the police detective, isnt that the same just taking a short cut, cos wont the detective give my file to the court? Im sorry about these silly questions, but im quite clueless when it come to stuff like this.
I live in South Africa in Durban and that is where i commited this offense.
I just dont ee why the detective would lie to me by saying a have a criminal record, would he say it to scare me so i don't do it again?
Are the laws diffrent here in South Africa than in the US or the UK?
Many thanks and warm regards,
T*

[taylor7]

Sorry one more question, if i did go to court to try plea my innocence and was found guilty (which i def would have been), would i have a criminal record then?
If so, why would people bother going to court cos if they do go to court and are found guilty then they get a criminal record whereas if you just say you are guilty at the police station, then you get a police record???
If that makes sence what i just wrote.

[taylor7]

jno, im a South African citizen...

[jno]

I'm no expert on South African law (this is mostly a UK site), but yes, I'd guess that he did say it just to scare you and maybe mislead you. Police all round the world don't much like going to court, it involves time away from their job and lots of paperwork; so he'd probably be only too happy to get this settled on the spot and try to put the wind up you by pretending that you'd been through the full justice system. But you haven't. Only courts can give you a criminal record. (So don't try to take this case to court, as if found guity you would then have a criminal record.) Policemen, who are basically investigators, aren't judges, who test police claims and hand out punishment to those they find guilty. This will be as true in South Africa as it is anywhere civilised - though of course if any other South African reading this thinks I'm wrong please say so.

It may well mean the police have their eye on you. It doesn't mean the authorities in Nouvelle Caledonie will have and if they ask you for visa purposes if you have a criminal record, tell them No, because you haven't.

[taylor7]

Jno, you have no idea how much i appreciate your help.
Iv been doin gsome reading, and shoplifting is considered a petty crime (the worth of goods i stole was small) and you may recieve a misdemeanor, is this true?
The problem is if it is true, that if you recieve a misdemeanor, then you have to do community service, whereas i didnt have to do any of that. I just had my photogragh taken, my fingerprints taken and checked for any past convictions and had to pay a 500 rand fine.

[taylor7]

Judging by my circumstances, what do you think i have been charged with if i don't have a criminal record?
Thanks once again :)

[jno]

I didn't realise you'd had to pay a fine, taylor7. I'm honestly not sure what this means in SA law. There are some instant fines applicable in the UK, usually for things like parking and skateboarding in contravention of local council byelaws. These are considered minor matters and don't involve a criminal record - more like speeding tickets. I would expect the same to apply in SA for misdemeanours - but I don't know for sure and you should probably ask for local advice to be certain. Sorry I can't be any more help.

But as regards visas, I still wouldn't worry, I don't think the French authorities of Nlle Caledonie (or anywhere else for that matter) will be interested.

[taylor7]

Thank you so much for all your help.

[taylor7]

Thank you so much for all your help jno :)
p.s Law man, do yo have any further advise you could offer me?

[taylor7]

jno, the police said judging by the value of the goods that were taken, the price of he fine would be stipulated, so maybe the fine was for some sort of "bail fee" from the police station. Could that be a possibility?

[taylor7]

jno, the police said judging by the value of the goods that were taken, the price of the fine would be stipulated, so maybe the fine was for some sort of "bail fee" from the police station. Could that be a possibility?

[jno]

sounds like there's some sort of sliding scale - maybe the fine is 10 times the value of the goods or something. I don't know about bail fees - I don't think anything of the sort exists in the UK. What sometimes happens here for first offences is the police issue an official caution (but no punishment); it stays on your record (that's police record, not criminal record) for a few years, and if there was a second offence in that period then the first one could be revived and taken further. If not the whole record is wiped clean at the end of the period. This may also be the case in SA - that is, you have a police record that expires at the end of a fixed time - but I really don't know the SA situation.

Do you have anything like the UK citizens' advice bureaux wshere you could go for quick, free advice on low-level matters like this? Here's the UK website so you can see if there's anything similar in SA

http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/index/aboutus .htm

[taylor7]

No i havn't, but will give it a shot. Thank you.

[Law Man1856]

Taylor/ all other posters,

I have spoken today to my sister in law ( traffic cop ) in randberg ( could be spelt wrong sorry ) in SA.
She says given the facts you were given a Fixed Penalty Ticket and it is a police fine NO A COURT CONVICTION. So if what you have told me is right you DO NOT HAVE A CRIMINAL CONVICTION. Also you can check to status of your fine / ticket at the main police station and they will issue a copy of the receipt you were issued with. You may have to pay for the copy a few RAND but I think that will put your mind at rest.

GOOD LUCK

[taylor7]

Lawman, you are seriouslty the best. Thank you so much for going out of your to speak to your sister in law. You really have put my mind at ease if what you say is correct, cos i have given you all the facts.
So if i have a police record, will that affect getting a VISA at all and if they ask you if you have had any past convictions, what do i say, yes or no?
Thanks again... sory you must be getting really sick and tired of me ;)