First date etiquette - should a man pay for dinner??

[oceanauk]

I am curious as to what people think in general - I know it will vary from one person to another or perhaps I'm just old fashioned!!! I went on a first date yesterday - meeting a guy I'd known online for about a month. I had to travel 2hrs on a train to London which was quite expensive. It was a mutually agreed date although he knows I'm a single Mum with limited income. When it came to dinner - he just waved his half of the money at me and I thought well guess I'll be paying for mine then!!! I would not have minded paying for mine - but he didn't even offer. Is this selfish? Or should a man at least offer to pay? I ended up putting more money down as he didn't have any left for a tip!!! I put another fiver down!! I hate to get so petty about things but - I do feel frustrated sometimes when I know men earn more than women and I really do struggle to make ends meet. I am only able to work part time and it was a very expensive day for me yesterday. I would welcome views from everyone but especially men and how they feel about this?? Thank you.

[bednobs]

hmmm in my experience (not very extensive) the man has always offered to pay but i have refused and paid my share. Men dont necessarily earn more than women - me and mr bednobs were together for at least five years before his income exceeded mine. this is someone you dont know much about - perhaps he struggles with money too?
I can see where yu are coming from and to a certain extent agree with you BUT on the other hand it sounds really picky and spoiled! (perhaps im picky and spoiled too?)

[Whickerman]

I'm sorry, I'm with oceanuk

As a man i always paid for meals on dates, and for the first drinks etc. I still like to do so now I'm married, but there are times my wife likes to do so as a treat for me.

I'm only in my mid 30s but that's how I was brought up.

[chakka35]

You are not the least bit petty. It is simple good manners that the man pays in such circumstances.

Later on, if your relationship were to mature (and I hope it doesn't - you deserve better) then there'll come a time when you might initiate a discussion about the matter. Meanwhile, he pays.

[REDHEAD24]

lol poor ocean -a TRUE gent would not haveu open ur purse , thats why i love irish men they never let you open ur purse , was it worth it and willu see the tight arse again ?

[oceanauk]

I am very pleased to see so far the general consensus has been in my favour!!

Bednobs - I didn't mean to imply all men earn more than women but most certainly most men do. It's a fact of life. As for picky and spoiled - I most certainly am not. My lifestyle is as far removed from spoiled as it can be! I live my life on a very limited means so that my son can have the best I can offer him. It means that I have to live just above the minimum wage (as most mothers do as that is the only work out there with the hours to suit). I have never gone out with a man for money and am always generous with any partner I'm with.

I am so, so pleased that there are other people out there, men especially who also see this situation in a similar way. I was brought up to believe it was a gentlemanly thing to do.

This guy new I had limited funds. We had discussed when we first got chatting - I don't want any guy under the impression that a) I have lots of money and can go gallivanting around lording it up!! and b) that because I have no money does not mean I want theirs!! - so it was a big deal for me to travel to London.

It was not so much that he didn't pay - but the way it was done and he kept mentioning lack of money at different points through the day. He does work, not in a permanent job, but he earns more money probably in a day then I do in a week.

This guy wants me to go meet him again. I don't know what to say - as I don't want to get into a horrible discussion about money - I actually feel quite embarrassed about the whole situation. Any more ideas please???

[oceanauk]

Sorry more afterthoughts!!! Whickerman - thank you for your comments - I'm in my mid 30's too - and I'm glad there are still some old fashioned values being used. Shame I can't seem to find the men that have them!!! No wonder I'm still single!! Chakka35 - again thanks for your comments - thank you for saying I deserve better - something I'm working on - to spot those "red flags" from day one!! By the same token - do I discount a potential relationship from this one thing?? And redhead24 - oh you made me laugh!!! Well I love the Irish accent so perhaps you could sent a few lovely Irish gents over this way??? LOL!!!!!!

[Yorks lad]

Well i for 1 would never treat a lady in this way.

This guy should be meeting all your costs and he should also be the 1 on the train not you.

Hell if he is like this now whats he gonna be like further down the line.

I kinda tells you why this looser is still on his own dont it.

Dump him now before he spends any more of your hard earned cash

[Lucy Thomas]

Kick him into touch asap.

In my single days I had a rule that if the man offered to pay all, I would offer my half. This was always declined and he usually got a second date. If he expected me to pay then he was history.

In most cases it's the man who makes the invitation and so should pay. If, however, I was to make the invitation then I would expect to pay.

Remember, most people try to impress on a first date, so you've obviously seen this man's true side. I don't imagine that he'd improve if you had a relationship with him.

His loss by the sound of it.

[figure]

I agree with Chakka and to add this to what she said - If this guy was unable to pay on this first date he should not have agreed to it; he should have waited until he saved up. Also, you were his guest in his home town, another reason for him to foot the bill. Sounds like he's a bit immature and out of touch.

[tiggerblue10]

So he wants YOU to go and meet him again! If you do want to see him again then he should come and see you. It is what is known as give and take.

It also sounds as if he is isn't giving any regard for your child/children either by wanting you travel again.

[beryllium]

Hi ocean :)
It is quite simple.

No thank you.

It's not me.

It's you.

and then find yourself a gentleman. :D xxx

[Whickerman]

Maybe it is an Irish thing, as Redhead mentions. We really don't ask a woman out unless we can do it properly. I'm sure there are exceptions but...

[oceanauk]

Oh I've started something here haven't I? LOL!!!!!! I'm actually really pleased that I'm not alone in my thoughts!!!! I think the problem is that although I may be mid 30's I've never actually gone on proper "dates" before - when I was younger you met a guy and you'd go hang out at the local disco!!! How old am I???? LOL!!! Perhaps this is also why I keep picking the wrong guys!!!! Is there a guidebook ladies???? Why don't I know all the "rules" ???

For the rest of the day - he was a perfect gentleman - so I don't really know what was going on and I do feel like I'm probably making a big deal out of nothing.

**Sigh** dating is just too complicated sometimes!! LOL!

Thank you everyone!!!!!!!!!!

[REDHEAD24]

mate dont do it , dont date the rat

get out while u can

u dont want no scrub - aim higher mate please xx

[Hermia]

I thought the 'rule' was that whoever did the asking out paid for the first date and then after that you took turns or go halves (unless one of you is fabulously rich!).

I think you need to have a word with this guy and make sure he doesn't expect you to travel to London every time. Perhaps you could just explain that you are not well off and suggest you go to cheaper restaurants and meet in the middle.

I think him mentioning money all day would have put me off. If he was genuinely short of money he could have brought the subject up in a better way. He sounds like the type who'd buy you a birthday present and then complain about the cost! How was he otherwise? Did you ask how your journey went or express concern about your 2 hours travel time.

[oceanauk]

I've stirred a right hornets nest here!! LOL!!! I think I should explain a little further the circumstances since the guy can't defend himself - we agreed mutually to meet in London - so it was not a case of he asked me out first - and secondly we agreed London because it was half way for BOTH of us - he actually lives a couple of hours in the other direction out of London. He did suggest coming to my home town but I was not comfortable with that and felt it was only fair to meet half way.

He was a very nice man - exactly as he had been online and over the phone with me over the last month - it was just this one incident that bothered me. I just thought it seemed a bit out of character for him - but then I obviously don't know him that well as yet. Also, I think I mentioned that although he's doing some work at the moment - it's not a full time job - he had been living in the States and has only just fairly recently come back to the UK - so has not found the "right" job yet but is applying constantly.

He mentioned money through the day which was uncomfortable although he had already explained his situation to me and he also knew mine.

He does have ADD which means sometimes he tends to say things without thinking them through - again I had been pre-warned and I have absolutely no problem with it.

On the whole he was a complete gentleman - so do I go for the second date? He has offered to come to me and stay in a B&B etc. I am happy to meet in London since it's neutral territory - something I feel much more comfortable with.

So any more views are greatly appreciated. I'm sure I've now probably painted the most awful picture!!!

"crumbs" as Penfold said to Dangermouse..........

LOL!!!!

[teag1rl]

He offered to come to you and stay in a B&B? So he can afford to do that? Or is the offer of him stying in B&B in hope you'll let him share your bed instead? Sorry, I've only read through your description of him once and I may being unfair, but he does sound a bit odd-kinda like he's after sex?
And he should defnitely have offered to pay for your meal. First date I'll always try to pay half when the bill comes, but as some else said, the man should insist on paying (if they want a second date!)

[naomi24]

You've had some good advice here, oceanauk. I can't imagine why you're even considering seeing this man again. I like a man to be a gentleman - I like good manners - and I won't accept anything less. Just tell him thanks, but no thanks. I know it's an old saying, but there really are plenty more fish in the sea and you never know who's waiting around the corner to sweep you off your feet. Stick to your standards - and I wish you happy landings!

[Reverandfunk]

You birds make me laugh, u want equality when it suits you but then you want a bloke to pay for your food and drinks!

make your mind up u cant have it both ways lol

[ludwig]

I think people are being a bit hard on the guy. He did get the protocol wrong - he should have offered to pay, but maybe he was just unsure about how it works ( as you yourself are ) didn't want to appear patronising or sexist, and made the wrong call.

Do the following test, next time YOU offer to pay. If he accepts without even offering half, run like the wind and don't look back.